| Posted by: pulper_80 at December 20, 2005, 12:16 pm | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: I did not know of many winning rocks. You REALLY do not want to be a rock.
I have seen more winning fish then winning Rocks!
Yea but it's better than a mouse
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| Posted by: Mikke_ at December 20, 2005, 11:32 am | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | pulper_80 wrote: BTW I had been a mouse for 10K hands (and a consistent -2BB), but since reading SSHE I changed to a rock and have slowly been improving BB, up to -1.65 now. Hopefully will become eagle or cash bag soon.
I wouldn't get too obsessed with becoming an eagle or a cash-bag. Depending on what level you play it may not be a good thing. I have played about 7000 hands at Party .5/1.00 and am usually showing as a happy or sad face, sometimes an eagle or mouse, occasionally a cash-bag. Even though I am usually a face, I am showing pretty good positive BB/100.
Whilst most cash-bags at this level show +BB/100, quite a few eagles and a lot of rocks show -BB/100. I guess this is partly to do with multi-table bonus-chasing, without the skills of the better multi-tablers.
I just worry about my BB/100 now, and don't care much about my PT rating, so long as I am showing enough aggression - in the short-term I care more about the PAHud image I am portraying. (After the g... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: pulper_80 at December 20, 2005, 11:05 am | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: search for datamining
Ah, that's what datamining is, thanks. I guess it seems like PT is most useful for studying your own play, unless maybe you are hunting fish and can keep checking tables until you find one with a lot of fish icons (impractical if trying to multi-table).
BTW I had been a mouse for 10K hands (and a consistent -2BB), but since reading SSHE I changed to a rock and have slowly been improving BB, up to -1.65 now. Hopefully will become eagle or cash bag soon.
It's amazing the stuff I used to play, I would call preflop with any pocket pair in any position, despite raises and reraises. That was probably the most disasterous of my many poor "rules" I set up for myself when starting out clearing bonuses. Another one was always folding Ace something suited preflop unless it was AK.
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| Posted by: HeelHo at December 20, 2005, 8:38 am | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | Im more interested in my own stats. But if you want an adjustment for icon, use them for really tight decisions. THe small favorable or unfavorable things
When better icons are in multiway pots pay attention to how good your draws or made hands are. I have people with 2500 or more hands against me. I havent incorporated many changes consciously, but if PTer says they have been winning over that period I try to figure out why I disrespect them. And yeah, some people have changed icons several times(even if I cant change my own). ANd I use W$SD for autorating. If I am going to use PT for a decision, its usually the river bet where I think the most about it and incorporate a rating. I dont have the time to look at his river agg factor, but
if he is winning over 60% of his showdowns Im going to think more about a marginal call. If the guy is losing more than 50% Im probably dialed in even if i have him on a made hand and Im ragged.
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| Posted by: Grinder at December 20, 2005, 6:07 am | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | PERSONALLY - and do NOT take this personally) I think datamining is REAL REAL silly. I have never understood the logic behind it.
You can tell all 90% of what you need to see about a player after 2 orbits - the other 10% is just extra stuff on how that play post flop. and 90% of players are bad there anyway. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: pulper_80 at December 19, 2005, 11:26 am | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | For part time players like me, is there a disadvantage to leaving a poker client running all day long when you are at work? I was thinking I could open up several tables, have them observed all day, and then poker tracker would be filled with hand data when I got home.
Like you guys mentioned, I only have 50 - 100 hands of data on most players on a certain network which is not enough to get an accurate representation of their playing style.
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| Posted by: Grinder at December 18, 2005, 10:44 pm | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | Don't change your play against icons unless they are rocks. If a dice is giving you fits - leave - don't BE A MAN and try to fight him - it's -EV UNLESS the table is tight and you can isolate him 1 on 1.
You realy need a couple hundred hands to get a feel for somebody and normally it's a rock that is raising. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: porkrind at December 18, 2005, 8:53 am | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | Got into a great chat conversation with a player regarding PT/PA last night while playing. I now know why the only people who pay me off at 1/2 are the recreational players who are playing for fun and new arrivals I have not played against. He had me rated as an uber rock even though my PT says I am an eagle. He said that since I am so tight people who pay attention folded whenever I bet/raised so my wins were smaller and the Call Station suckouts were bigger. I went back and looked at my crypto stats and noticed I only won big pots the first few orbits at a table. So I did a little table hopping and had the best 600 hand poker session I have seen in three months. Cleared alot more raked hands as well.
Gave me alot to think about. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Mikke_ at December 17, 2005, 10:39 pm | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | PT/PaHud.
Repaid costs easy( ) by playing with +50%+ fun players and/or <20% bonus hunters.
Word.
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| Posted by: elf23 at December 17, 2005, 9:02 pm | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | unless you have thousands upon thousands (like 5k-10k) at least, BB/100 is almost meaningless. playing tendencies are much more important.
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| Posted by: DrStrange at December 17, 2005, 4:05 pm | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | If you ran a heads up display you could look at actual statisics rather than relying on somebody's autorating system. There are sizable differences in the playing styles within the same icon. The standard icons focus on preflop play and one measure of raw postflop agression. Missing from this is any measure of the quality of post flop play.
PT provides a huge number of statistics. I found a lot of good clues about people's playing style. I especially like went to showdown % and won $ at showdown % (and check raise % if I have lots of data on a player.)
Several others have commented on the risk of making too fine a read on a small number of hands. Even 100 hands isn't very many when you consider how infrequently some situtations come up. Some information is better than nothing, but I wouldn't make too big an adjustment for most players till I had several hours worth of hand records from them.
Be slow to adapt your best game to players new to you. Make better use of t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mikke_ at December 17, 2005, 3:14 pm | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | MM - the part of my post re: eagles could have been misinterpreted.
When I say look at their BB/100, I meant exactly that. Some eagles have +7BB/100 and some have -3BB/100.
I didn't mean to respect eagles because they are eagles, but it could have been read that way I guess.
I pay most attention to smiley faces and money bags at the level I play.
And warning triangles after that.
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| Posted by: Mikke_ at December 17, 2005, 2:45 pm | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | If you see more than one smiley yellow face, or one smiley yellow face and two sad green faces at your table....
Then make it your ex-table............
Rocks = (mostly)
Eagles = look at their BB/100
Money bags = as eagles, but don't mess with em.
.5/1 FL
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| Posted by: porkrind at December 17, 2005, 11:51 am | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | | For me everytime I try to outplay the red dice with anything less than a made hand I get spanked. Telephones require at least top pair top kicker then I am prepared for a god awful river. Of course I am probably just stump broke after the last month. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at December 17, 2005, 10:22 am | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | Get up and leave the table! Your data is telling you that you have choosen poorly! Look for a table full of Fish, Telephones & Maniacs!
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| Posted by: pulper_80 at December 17, 2005, 10:14 am | | Topic: Adapting play to adjust for autorated players Forum: Bonus Whores | So I have PT data on people, I join a room, do the GT+ thing and I am sitting next to a bunch of eagles and cashbags and whatnot.
Now, the question is how are you supposed to adjust your play to account for these things.
Say it comes down to me and a TAA player after the flop. I never know if he probably doesn't have anything, because he is just betting his aggressive tendencies, or if he always has something really good and that is why he is aggressive post flop.
Or say for a TPP player. I have been able to make them fold before by betting, but if they call or come back over the top, is this a sign that they really have a monster or are they just going to call to the river and then fold so I need to keep firing bullets.
It seems that the rating system can be taken 2 ways for each type of player and I never know which one it is.
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