| Posted by: sleeper at February 13, 2006, 8:27 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | | while SSHE may assume a california card room type of play it really isnt a bad play style for the tighter low limit games online. It reinforces the need to play limit as a drawing game and gives you a great basis for that. It's a book you can reread several times and isn't just an introduction to poker. I'm not sure if I'd read HEAP skipping SSHE if you are playing a decent ammount in the 1/2 or 2/4. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 12, 2006, 9:29 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | WhooFleuryScores wrote: Todays's breed of poker players are cold blooded killers.Do not underestimate their powers;or suffer my fate you will.
Good God man how many poker playing Ninja's are there in the world? All this time I thought I was a sliver minority faction representing a very tiny segment of the poker playing population.
_________________
Real American Heroes, today we salute Mr. hot ceramic man maker! A home isn't a home without a gnome! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: WhooFleuryScores at February 11, 2006, 9:51 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | I think as a whole I have been able to cut through the books ok;it just takes time to digest it sometimes.
Quote: I think he was in LOTS (Lord of the Snowmobiles).
Tom Bombadil was in LOTR.
Sorry;spelling my bad.
Quote: I personally really dont read much (my main weakness probably).
"Always read the new and upcoming books;because if you aren't your opponents are."
The game we play right now is much more dangerous and harder then the soft games that Doyle,Slim,and Lederer used to cut up.This is why you see Doyle and Phil struggling,Slim is retired,and Ivey getting slammed even when he has AQ shorthanded.Todays's breed of poker players are cold blooded killers.Do not underestimate their powers;or suffer my fate you will. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 10, 2006, 11:36 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Cha Ngo wrote: Quote: In LOTR for instance you will read about a character named Tom Bombardiar
I think he was in LOTS (Lord of the Snowmobiles).
Tom Bombadil was in LOTR.
Golly!
_________________
Real American Heroes, today we salute Mr. hot ceramic man maker! A home isn't a home without a gnome! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Cha Ngo at February 10, 2006, 7:11 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: In LOTR for instance you will read about a character named Tom Bombardiar
I think he was in LOTS (Lord of the Snowmobiles).
Tom Bombadil was in LOTR.
_________________
I'm gonna change my name to Hannibal
Or maybe just Rex | | Static Link |
| Posted by: AAudaman at February 10, 2006, 10:57 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | I think one of the most important issues is that you have a good overview of many different games. You'll want to be able to experiment to really find out what your forte is given your personality/thinking style. You'll also want the flexibility to play different games given the fact that at different times of the day certain sites/live casinos will have juicy tables of one game while another dries up.
Start with a book that gives you a good overview of the different games along with some basic beginner strategy. Super System's good for that purpose. Restrict your play to the microlimit tables such as at Pokerstars. Keep your buy-ins very low on the no-limit and pot-limit tables. Spend part of your free time reading and part of your free time getting a feel for the way different people play. Once you get through Super System, hit up another overview book that gets more serious: _Theory of Poker_. You probably won't understand it fully the first time you read it (or second, or third...), but... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: elric at February 9, 2006, 9:18 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | thunder2048 wrote: "Play the bovious"
S'mo fo butter layin' to the bone. Jackin' me up. I dukka rap!
_________________
Real American Heroes, today we salute Mr. hot ceramic man maker! A home isn't a home without a gnome! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: thunder2048 at February 9, 2006, 8:59 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | | I personally really dont read much (my main weakness probably). I did bough Super System 2 (the bible written by the best poker players around the world). But seriously, I really should have bought another book because I'm playing mainly on party at low limits and this book really is not the book for these games... I can give you a real fast summary of the "how to play against fish" part of this book, they simply say "Play the bovious, dont bluff much or try fancy play". I dont know which book to suggest, but unless you're planning on going to high limits, dont buy this one. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 9, 2006, 8:26 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | mtxed wrote: Alphaunit1 wrote: Miller's SSHE, as I've stated many times previously, is a horrible beginner's book. It doesn't purport itself to be one either. It teaches a very aggressive attacking style of poker that has gotten far too many inexperienced players in trouble.
I have one person here telling me SSHE is good and Alpha saying its bad. I guess I'll just have to try it to see for myself. Meanwhile I'll reread Lee Jone's book even though it has done me no good
Just to quote the relevant passage. I have never said that SSHE is a horrible book - just a horrible beginner's book. Even though you are having some troubles right now, you aren't a beginner anymore, and have plenty of experience under your belt that the average "I play too loose, I've only played this game a few times in the casino" type player doesn't have. SSHE will really help you open up your game, trust me, and at this point you really do need that - and after reading your other... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 9, 2006, 1:36 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: WhooFleuryScores wrote: Quote: Books are a waste of time.
I diagree.While I do find many movies to be better than the book(LOTR,Star Wars,Chronicles of Narnia),books will give you a different dimension that a movie otherwise would not.In LOTR for instance you will read about a character named Tom Bombardiar,and you will find out what happens to Aragorn and Awren after the war.In Star Wars there is always additional detail you would never hear(Vadar going into the temple and seeing the bloodstains on the war,Windu dubbing Kenobi the Master of Soresu,and of course added details in The Lion,The Witch,the Wardrobe,and the Warlock).
You hear that "woosh" go by your ear? That was the sound of the joke going right past your head.
Quote: Quote: Anybody who had a desire to learn the game and was a beginner would be getting my copy of Lee Jone's book, a far, far better starter book than most anything else written.... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 8, 2006, 10:28 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | WhooFleuryScores wrote: Quote: Books are a waste of time.
I diagree.While I do find many movies to be better than the book(LOTR,Star Wars,Chronicles of Narnia),books will give you a different dimension that a movie otherwise would not.In LOTR for instance you will read about a character named Tom Bombardiar,and you will find out what happens to Aragorn and Awren after the war.In Star Wars there is always additional detail you would never hear(Vadar going into the temple and seeing the bloodstains on the war,Windu dubbing Kenobi the Master of Soresu,and of course added details in The Lion,The Witch,the Wardrobe,and the Warlock).
You hear that "woosh" go by your ear? That was the sound of the joke going right past your head.
Quote: Quote: Anybody who had a desire to learn the game and was a beginner would be getting my copy of Lee Jone's book, a far, far better starter book than most anything else written.
I think Ken W... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mikke_ at February 8, 2006, 7:05 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: mtxed wrote: Lees book has helped me to -$2100
I was making more $ before I read that book with my extremely retarded plays that worked more than often.
I've just burned my Lee Jone's book after your thread and this reminder. Obviously it must be trash, and I'm in the process of writing apology letters to the many people I've loaned it to. Hopefully I won't have to pay all those people's losses back as well, that could get expensive.
Dammit!
I was going to ask to borrow it next.
_________________
Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: WhooFleuryScores at February 8, 2006, 7:00 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: Books are a waste of time.
I diagree.While I do find many movies to be better than the book(LOTR,Star Wars,Chronicles of Narnia),books will give you a different dimension that a movie otherwise would not.In LOTR for instance you will read about a character named Tom Bombardiar,and you will find out what happens to Aragorn and Awren after the war.In Star Wars there is always additional detail you would never hear(Vadar going into the temple and seeing the bloodstains on the war,Windu dubbing Kenobi the Master of Soresu,and of course added details in The Lion,The Witch,the Wardrobe,and the Warlock).
Quote: Anybody who had a desire to learn the game and was a beginner would be getting my copy of Lee Jone's book, a far, far better starter book than most anything else written.
I think Ken Warren,Lee Jones,and TJ Cloutier are unfortunately the B Team when it comes to book writing for poker.Skalansky,Miller,Malmuth,Ciarforne,and Hilger are def ahead in those... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 7, 2006, 3:12 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | mtxed wrote: Lees book has helped me to -$2100
I was making more $ before I read that book with my extremely retarded plays that worked more than often.
I've just burned my Lee Jone's book after your thread and this reminder. Obviously it must be trash, and I'm in the process of writing apology letters to the many people I've loaned it to. Hopefully I won't have to pay all those people's losses back as well, that could get expensive. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 7, 2006, 3:12 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Books are a waste of time.
"There's nothing you can learn from a book that you can't learn from TV more quickly." --- Harry Wormwood
Travel Channel WPT
ESPN WSOP
Bravo Celebrity Poker
GSN High Stakes Poker
GSN Poker Royale: Comedians vs. Poker Pros
Soak it up bitches!
_________________
Real American Heroes, today we salute Mr. hot ceramic man maker! A home isn't a home without a gnome! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 7, 2006, 1:54 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: I think we may have to agree to disagree on that one - Hellmuth's book overall isn't bad (especially as a beginner's book), but his chapters on how to play Hold'em are absolutely terrible. I can't see how they would even be good for a flat-out beginner, as the strategies aren't even capable of producing winning play. I'm not saying there isn't a nugget or two of good info in them (there is), but there is a lot of information that AFAIC are flat-out inaccurate and detrimental.
The only people I would loan my Hellmuth's book (yes, I do own the book, and have read it) to learn Hold'em from would be people I really don't like, and don't want to learn to play better. Anybody who had a desire to learn the game and was a beginner would be getting my copy of Lee Jone's book, a far, far better starter book than most anything else written.
Lees book has helped me to -$2100
I was making more $ before I read that book with my extremely retarded plays that worked m... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 5, 2006, 11:27 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | I think we may have to agree to disagree on that one - Hellmuth's book overall isn't bad (especially as a beginner's book), but his chapters on how to play Hold'em are absolutely terrible. I can't see how they would even be good for a flat-out beginner, as the strategies aren't even capable of producing winning play. I'm not saying there isn't a nugget or two of good info in them (there is), but there is a lot of information that AFAIC are flat-out inaccurate and detrimental.
The only people I would loan my Hellmuth's book (yes, I do own the book, and have read it) to learn Hold'em from would be people I really don't like, and don't want to learn to play better. Anybody who had a desire to learn the game and was a beginner would be getting my copy of Lee Jone's book, a far, far better starter book than most anything else written. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: WhooFleuryScores at February 5, 2006, 8:17 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: Besides the Hold'em chapters (which are absolutely, positively horrendous), the remaining chapters on the other game types are pretty decent introductions to the games and how to play them.
I disagree;I think Helmuth's book actually has alot to offer for beginners.Past the beginner stage I think you def need books like SSH and ITH to help move a player forward though. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Mikke_ at February 4, 2006, 8:49 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Cha Ngo wrote: Mikke_ wrote: Worked with the 7CS8 tourney here
That and an endless stream of suck-outs.
TOP is the book from which all of these others flow. You must have it.
Yeah - TOP was my first book along with Phils guide.
I was the aggressive unknown masked man that night.
Made enough early to gambool later
_________________
Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Cha Ngo at February 4, 2006, 8:42 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Mikke_ wrote: Worked with the 7CS8 tourney here
That and an endless stream of suck-outs.
TOP is the book from which all of these others flow. You must have it.
_________________
I'm gonna change my name to Hannibal
Or maybe just Rex | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Mikke_ at February 4, 2006, 6:52 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: Mikke_ wrote: I think all of them helped in many ways, even the much-maligned Helmuth book.
Besides the Hold'em chapters (which are absolutely, positively horrendous), the remaining chapters on the other game types are pretty decent introductions to the games and how to play them.
Glad to have that affirmed - I always re-read the chapter before I play a new game as I have no other books on anything other than HE at the moment. Worked with the 7CS8 tourney here
_________________
Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 4, 2006, 6:29 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Mikke_ wrote: I think all of them helped in many ways, even the much-maligned Helmuth book.
Besides the Hold'em chapters (which are absolutely, positively horrendous), the remaining chapters on the other game types are pretty decent introductions to the games and how to play them. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Mikke_ at February 4, 2006, 5:29 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | My first two books were TOP and Play Poker Like the Pros - long way apart I know! Just got two books that looked good from Amazon.
Next was SSHE.
I think all of them helped in many ways, even the much-maligned Helmuth book.
But between them they took me from a break-even/slightly +EV player to 2BB/100 and beyond at the lower limits FL I play at.
PPLtP made me be disciplined in starting hands, though I dumped some of the over-aggression with lower pairs.
TOP made me think about the maths of it all, although the advanced game theory and so on have little relevance on the internet due to time constraints, especially when M-Tabling. Although I do flip a coin sometimes
SSHE put it together and taught selective aggression.
Read as much as you can is my 2c.
_________________
Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: TheJourneyman at February 4, 2006, 4:56 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | elric wrote: I found SSHE totally useless. I have tried and tried to play low limit holdem and have decided I would rather dip my nutz in acid and gouge my eyeballs out with a rusty spoon.
I am stuck playing No Limit Hold Em for the rest of my natural born days.
when are you publishing your book on play money holdem secrets? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: WhooFleuryScores at February 4, 2006, 4:46 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: The Theory of Poker will teach you the theoretical concepts behind many forms of poker, drawing examples from not only hold'em but 7 card stud, draw lowball ect...
I still need to get around to readin that sometime myself. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: gerkshz at February 4, 2006, 11:36 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | 1. ITH by Hilger (covers almost EVERYTHING!)
2. SSHE by Miller (teaches you aggression)
3. and then apply what you've learned from those two books by answering the over 150 exercises in Purdy's book (IGTTHE) | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 4, 2006, 8:13 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | | SSHE was written originally, and still heavily applies to, live games. But I still stand by my statement that SSHE teaches you concepts about aggression that are quite helpful, even at the lower # people -> flop of the online games. Not even getting into the fact that SSHE is a far easier read than HEFAP - I view it as more of an "intermediate" book - it covers basics (of course), but not so much that it feels bogged down in them. It certainly isn't teaching a "fit or fold" strategy. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: TheFranchise at February 4, 2006, 1:45 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: We do not talk about these things, not because they aren't important, but because we assume that you already know them."
I've always had a problem with this book other than the counting outs section. If the authors assume players already know the basic stuff, they still sure do spend a lot of time covering concepts such as not calling raises with K10o and things. And then half the book is geared towards games where there are an average 6+ or whatever people seeing the flop. I don't think Party .50/1 even qualifies for that anymore.
You already said it, "HEFAP assumes that you don't have a bunch of retards at the table." HEFAP is a good book, but you really have to read between the lines since it rarely says, "If you have this, do this, if the pot is this size, do this," etc.
I recently re-read SSHE, and if you're not playing against complete idiots, I think other books are better. The most amusing thing is the harsh wo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: LORDFocker at February 4, 2006, 1:10 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | mtxed wrote: Theory of Poker or Holdem for Advanced Players? Both by David Skalansky. I already have Winning Low Limit Poker by Lee Jones. Getting the book free from PokerStars FPP store.
I own both books..... The Theory of Poker will teach you the theoretical concepts behind many forms of poker, drawing examples from not only hold'em but 7 card stud, draw lowball ect... Holdem Poker for Advanced Players will give you more specific recipes for winning in today's hold'em games. Both are full of useful content. If I had to do it over again I would read Hold'em Poker first because I play that specific form of poker so much. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: WhooFleuryScores at February 4, 2006, 12:27 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: I found SSHE totally useless. I have tried and tried to play low limit holdem and have decided I would rather dip my nutz in acid and gouge my eyeballs out with a rusty spoon.
I disagree;besides Internet Texas Hold Em by Matthew Hilger I think SSH was one of the most impacting poker books I ever read.I think ITH and SSH should be considered required reading/studying for another serious player.I also recommend Middle Limit Hold Em as later on those concepts will be vital when you progress to 10/20 15/30 and 20/40 games.
I own HEFAP,Shuffle Up and Deal,Making the Final Table,and another nasty 2+2 book as well.Like a student you have to study this game and even then it doesn't guarantee sucess(as my recent 20K post proved). | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 3, 2006, 8:00 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | mtxed wrote: Mainly 1/2-3/6..I want to get into 5/10 though one day though since it would clear bonuses so fast
No kidding they clear quicker. $5/$10 clears as fast as $1/$2, if not faster, and also has the benefit of clearing the scaling bonuses (Stars, PokerRoom, Cryptos, etc.) much quicker as well.
Geesh, tough question. My gut says get SSHE, just because that is the lineage of books I went through, and you'll learn a lot from it to help you play against really bad opponents. But I have to admit that if you really want to get better, esp. at $3/$6, HEFAP is a good fit as well. (HEFAP assumes that you don't have a bunch of retards at the table, and most flops are contested 3-way or heads-up. There is a section for looser games, but the core of the book is written for those style of games.) HEFAP is also good for some of those tighter low limit games - ie. Prima, Absolute, where there are fewer fish and a lot of tighter players. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 3, 2006, 7:13 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: mtxed wrote: Is SSHE purely a beginners book though? I already have Winning Low Limit Poker by Lee Jones which I consider to be pretty simple and beginner-ish already so I dont want to buy a book of similar level...
No, not really a beginner's book at all, but it highly depends at what level you are playing which book would be best for you. I'll quote from the Introduction:
"This is not a beginner's book. We will not explain the rules of Texas Hold'em, show how to read the board, or teach you to identify the nuts. We do not discuss how to select a table, tell you how large a buy-in to make, or teach you proper table etiquette.
This is also not a beginner's strategy book. We do not repeatedly emphasize the importance of plyaing tightly before the flop. We do not constantly advise you to avoid trouble or warn against the perils of calling down aimlessly with weak hands.
We do not talk about these things, not because they a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 3, 2006, 5:08 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | mtxed wrote: Is SSHE purely a beginners book though? I already have Winning Low Limit Poker by Lee Jones which I consider to be pretty simple and beginner-ish already so I dont want to buy a book of similar level...
No, not really a beginner's book at all, but it highly depends at what level you are playing which book would be best for you. I'll quote from the Introduction:
"This is not a beginner's book. We will not explain the rules of Texas Hold'em, show how to read the board, or teach you to identify the nuts. We do not discuss how to select a table, tell you how large a buy-in to make, or teach you proper table etiquette.
This is also not a beginner's strategy book. We do not repeatedly emphasize the importance of plyaing tightly before the flop. We do not constantly advise you to avoid trouble or warn against the perils of calling down aimlessly with weak hands.
We do not talk about these things, not because they aren't important, but becau... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: elric at February 3, 2006, 2:49 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | I found SSHE totally useless. I have tried and tried to play low limit holdem and have decided I would rather dip my nutz in acid and gouge my eyeballs out with a rusty spoon.
I am stuck playing No Limit Hold Em for the rest of my natural born days.
_________________
Real American Heroes, today we salute Mr. hot ceramic man maker! A home isn't a home without a gnome! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 3, 2006, 2:23 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | | Is SSHE purely a beginners book though? I already have Winning Low Limit Poker by Lee Jones which I consider to be pretty simple and beginner-ish already so I dont want to buy a book of similar level... | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 3, 2006, 12:18 pm | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | I usually recommend the following to a new student who is trying to learn:
1) Lee Jone's. Good book, gets the basics down, fairly weak-tight strategy but good to read through then play a bunch and get some basic experience.
2) SSHE. This takes the basics that you have read and pushes them to a much more aggressive stance. Only good if you have a solid underpinning of the basics and a decent amount of experience in at the tables.
Some people try to start with SSHE, but that is usually a grave error, as the book teachs a very aggressive "attacking" style of poker that causes inexperienced players to spew chips. I've seen it time and again, so I never recommend that book first. Ever.
3) HEFAP. As you move up in limits, SSHE becomes less useful (as the # of loose/poor players decreases), and HEFAP's conceptual ideas become much more applicable.
4) TOP. By now, having played for quite a bit, the ideas in this book will make a lot more sense to... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: sjguppy at February 3, 2006, 11:52 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Check some of the other post on Small stakes holdem by Miller. A number of players have talked about taking a beating after using this book. It was by far the most useful for me but I had already read Holdem and Advanced Holdem before that. I wouldn't recommend it being your starting point. I would start with Holdem first since it is a small book and pretty easy to understand. Then HEFAP and after you understand that then try Small Stakes. Make sure you are confident about your play before you start using Millers tactics. They are very agressive and can backfire if you are not sure of your strategy.
Theory of Poker is a great book. But again only after you have played long enough to be able to understand a lot of the concepts in it. It was one of my first books and completely useless. I picked it up again a couple of months ago and now that I understand what they are talking about it is a great book. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Dead_Baby_Jesus at February 3, 2006, 11:18 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: Yes it is, but Ed Miller is the primary author. Slansky and Malmouth consulted on the book, but they weren't responsible for most of the information in it. That's why most people consider Ed Miller to be the author.
Ahhh I see... Good to know. Thanks. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 3, 2006, 11:11 am | | Topic: Which book? Forum: Bonus Whores | | Yes it is, but Ed Miller is the primary author. Slansky and Malmouth consulted on the book, but they weren't responsible for most of the information in it. That's why most people consider Ed Miller to be the author. | | Static Link |
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