| Posted by: WhooFleuryScores at February 14, 2006, 7:40 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: Wish me luck I may not be a play chip gazillionaire for much longer.
Quote: I did not get to be a chip billionaire by folding pocket Kings!
Interesting.......j/k. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 14, 2006, 6:28 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | topdawg2003 wrote: no, i used the advice, the blocking bet... helpful... and thats the part of the hand i played poorly... 100% agreed, i made a mistake, but not until the river....
Your right.
I'm wrong.
I will start to play my premium hands your way calling pre-flop, checking the flop and checking the turn. Anytime someone bets the turn I will check raise but make sure I give them implied odds to call so as to extract extra EV out of these Donkeys.
I will flip a coin at the river to decide if I am going to check/call allin or bet/call allin. If the coin lands on its edge I am going to over bet/fold all-in.
Wish me luck I may not be a play chip gazillionaire for much longer.
_________________
Real American Heroes, today we salute Mr. hot ceramic man maker! A home isn't a home without a gnome! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: topdawg2003 at February 14, 2006, 5:23 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | DrStrange wrote: topdawg2003,
I find your lack of analysis about the villian's hand surprising. It is hard to accurately make laydowns if you aren't reading the villian's cards. The EV analysis you offered depends heavily on your ability to accurately decide to fold when you get reraised at the end. Without very careful analysis I do not expect many of us could make good enough decisions to make the slow plays profitable vs. the other options in the hand.
Your EV analysis is superficial because you did not make allowances for the costs of errors - times when you fold when you had a winner or times that you call when you have the worst of it. If I could almost always lay down my losers and call down my winners, I'd be a far more profitable player and my plays would look amazing.
Also missing is an evaluation of the cost/benefit to your table image. I have to think that some of the players at NL600 might be rather good keeping notes. If you are frequently making ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: DrStrange at February 14, 2006, 4:22 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | topdawg2003,
I find your lack of analysis about the villian's hand surprising. It is hard to accurately make laydowns if you aren't reading the villian's cards. The EV analysis you offered depends heavily on your ability to accurately decide to fold when you get reraised at the end. Without very careful analysis I do not expect many of us could make good enough decisions to make the slow plays profitable vs. the other options in the hand.
Your EV analysis is superficial because you did not make allowances for the costs of errors - times when you fold when you had a winner or times that you call when you have the worst of it. If I could almost always lay down my losers and call down my winners, I'd be a far more profitable player and my plays would look amazing.
Also missing is an evaluation of the cost/benefit to your table image. I have to think that some of the players at NL600 might be rather good keeping notes. If you are frequently making this type of tricky, trap... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: PollyAmory at February 14, 2006, 4:07 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | Lloric wrote: 2muchMONEY wrote: Lloric wrote: In a tournament it's about survival and a cash game is about aggression.
so tournament play is not about aggresion or what? man, stealing your blinds in a tourny sounds pretty easy...
LOL. No, I just mean aggression is a bigger factor in cash games. (IMO) If a player keeps stealing my blinds in a tourny I have no problem coming back over the top with any decent holding.
That does not make sense at all.
-- Polly
_________________
Jim is the best!
http://www.parttimepoker.com/poker-humor/freerollking/FR-handofweek-jacks.htm wrote: Not much you can do when you have the nuts and someone has the super nuts. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: 2muchMONEY at February 14, 2006, 2:44 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | @jay
your goddamn right
and don't forget, some of them have lasers!
@topdawg
that reraise is almost always right, and i think it would have been right in this spot too.
_________________
cya | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jay at February 14, 2006, 2:38 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | topdawg2003 wrote: everyone here can play like a robot, and it wouldn't bother me, but for those that wanna improve their game, this might be useful to see that the robotic reraise isn't the right play
Do not insult the robots. They have heavy steel arms that could crush you like a grape. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: topdawg2003 at February 14, 2006, 2:34 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | no, i used the advice, the blocking bet... helpful... and thats the part of the hand i played poorly... 100% agreed, i made a mistake, but not until the river....
or maybe i could've gotten more value out of the raise on 4th, but no more than $150-$160 to go instead of $120.... everyone here can play like a robot, and it wouldn't bother me, but for those that wanna improve their game, this might be useful to see that the robotic reraise isn't the right play | | Static Link |
| Posted by: 2muchMONEY at February 14, 2006, 2:27 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | why do you ask for advice if you don't take it?
play drunk (like you mentioned in the other thread), have fun BUT please don't ask for advice anymore if you don't want that ppl help you.
_________________
cya | | Static Link |
| Posted by: topdawg2003 at February 14, 2006, 1:59 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | Lets look at this from an expected value point of view based on the cards we know....
1) Lets see, i reraise preflop, i win $28 in profits about 100% of the time based on his cards ---> EV = $28
2) lets say i call and bet the flop with a pot sized bet, i win $48 100% of the time (assuming the BB doesn't make a call) ---> EV = $48
3) lead out and bet 4th, i'd probably get called by Cutoff cause he's got that draw... to make a lager than pot sized bet doesn't make sense... EV is clearly lower than below...
4) check raise as i did from $40 to $120 (which is the amount that i actually raised, the addition was wrong in the OP) and the cutoff calls
i win $208 79.5% of the time
if its a non flush card on the river, he folds to a river bet
1 / 44 times or 2.27% its the ace of hearts and i take his stack... lets assume that he might be able to make the fold and i only win $400 in profit then
and then 18.2% of the time when a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Lloric at February 14, 2006, 11:42 am | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | 2muchMONEY wrote: Lloric wrote: In a tournament it's about survival and a cash game is about aggression.
so tournament play is not about aggresion or what? man, stealing your blinds in a tourny sounds pretty easy...
LOL. No, I just mean aggression is a bigger factor in cash games. (IMO) If a player keeps stealing my blinds in a tourny I have no problem coming back over the top with any decent holding. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: 2muchMONEY at February 14, 2006, 7:08 am | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | Lloric wrote: In a tournament it's about survival and a cash game is about aggression.
so tournament play is not about aggresion or what? man, stealing your blinds in a tourny sounds pretty easy...
_________________
cya | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 14, 2006, 1:33 am | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | PollyAmory wrote: Sorry, elric it's true. I disagree with the turn play as well.
The pre-flop/flop play does have its merits though. The flop is broken and rainbow, between the high chance of PFR betting, and another card unlikely to beat you if he doesn't, it's a decent way to go.
Once it's checked around and turn brings a two-flush it's time to lay claim to the pot. People either caught up enough to pay you or they didn't. Time to start extracting value.
-- Polly
I repeat he had 4 fucking chances to make the hand an unprofitable call and failed all FOUR times. Strike FOUR you are OUT!
_________________
Real American Heroes, today we salute Mr. hot ceramic man maker! A home isn't a home without a gnome! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: PollyAmory at February 13, 2006, 11:27 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | Sorry, elric it's true. I disagree with the turn play as well.
The pre-flop/flop play does have its merits though. The flop is broken and rainbow, between the high chance of PFR betting, and another card unlikely to beat you if he doesn't, it's a decent way to go.
Once it's checked around and turn brings a two-flush it's time to lay claim to the pot. People either caught up enough to pay you or they didn't. Time to start extracting value.
-- Polly
_________________
Jim is the best!
http://www.parttimepoker.com/poker-humor/freerollking/FR-handofweek-jacks.htm wrote: Not much you can do when you have the nuts and someone has the super nuts. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 13, 2006, 3:33 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | PollyAmory wrote: elric wrote:
topdawg2003 wrote: despite it being a passive play, the flat call PF is the best play in my mind...
You need to put down the crack pipe dawg! Lets say you played pocket rockets the same exact way, you would end up in the same nasty train wreck you created with your AK. WTF do I know? Keep letting everyone have free cards, call all your money off at the river and lets see how long it takes for you to have a bankroll that rhymes with HERO!
I read the passage in Lindgren's WPT book today that specifically addresses this very scenario and his preferred play is to call the raise with AK out of the blinds and then check to the raiser post-flop. Granted, he is talking about early rounds of a deep stack poker tournament, but the situations are not dissimilar.
So to call that particular play crack-pipe stupid is an overstatement at least
-- Polly
P.S. I'm a $25NL player. Just so you know, Dawg.
Call PR... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Lloric at February 13, 2006, 1:54 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | PollyAmory wrote: elric wrote:
topdawg2003 wrote: despite it being a passive play, the flat call PF is the best play in my mind...
You need to put down the crack pipe dawg! Lets say you played pocket rockets the same exact way, you would end up in the same nasty train wreck you created with your AK. WTF do I know? Keep letting everyone have free cards, call all your money off at the river and lets see how long it takes for you to have a bankroll that rhymes with HERO!
I read the passage in Lindgren's WPT book today that specifically addresses this very scenario and his preferred play is to call the raise with AK out of the blinds and then check to the raiser post-flop. Granted, he is talking about early rounds of a deep stack poker tournament, but the situations are not dissimilar.
So to call that particular play crack-pipe stupid is an overstatement at least
-- Polly
P.S. I'm a $25NL player. Just so you know, Dawg.
T... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: tarheel1 at February 12, 2006, 12:47 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | topdawg2003 wrote: i have a bankroll of close to $40K... $28K or so of which has been made since late july when i started to play NL games (and i'm a full time student, so table hours are hard to come by for me)
topdawg2003 wrote: yup, you're right... i actually cried myself to sleep that night over that $600 i lost on that one hand... i still wasn't consoled by the +$400 net gain from the session... honestly, i think i used up about another $400 in tissues wiping my tears... so really it was more like a $1000 loss...
topdawg2003 wrote: 2/3 of the time i'm unimproved on the flop, i'm out of position, and i'd have to fire a bet of at least $100 with Ace high... i'm unsuited, no flush likely... so no good draws, likely unimproved, and i'm already putting about $200 in the pot (2/3 of the time, i'm betting with ace high)... even if he min raises my bet, i'm out $200 (thats 1.5 hours worth of play for a bad bluff)
_________________
blah blah blah | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 12, 2006, 9:00 am | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | topdawg2003 wrote: first of all, how the hell am i supposed to know what he's holding in this spot? it could be anything from poket 7s to Q4... so that makes no sense for me to assume he's gonna have an easy laydown... if he has any type of a reasonable hand, he's gonna call a reraise... i hate playing AKo out of position... as i said, betting wtih ace high into a maniac is horrible... what if the flop was Q82 rainbow... he might call me down or even raise... then i've thrown away $200+ on a gamble
So what I re-raise, he calls the flop misses me and he goes all-in I fold feeling confident that he had the best hand.
I re-raise, maniac calls, I flop my ace and bet out a pot sized bet with the intent of defending my play with my whole stack. In fact a better play against the maniac here might be to take his play away and go allin on the flop.
If he calls here with Q4s then everyone here wants to play with this alleged maniac donkey. If not the hand is over and you win.
<... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Baseballer02 at February 12, 2006, 6:58 am | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | topdawg2003 wrote: Baseballer02 wrote: You wanted sympathy because you played like a donk and stacked off, don't try to deny it.
yup, you're right... i actually cried myself to sleep that night over that $600 i lost on that one hand... i still wasn't consoled by the +$400 net gain from the session... honestly, i think i used up about another $400 in tissues wiping my tears... so really it was more like a $1000 loss...
one last point... anyone who advocates playing the same hand, the same way in every spot against every oponent should pick a different game... cause poker is not for you.... if i'm gonna robotically reraise with AK every time, i'm gonna get reamed playing poker... good luck to you that do play that way...
Am I supposed to oooo and ahhhhh over $400? You continue to show what a arrogant piece of shit you are. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Baseballer02 at February 12, 2006, 6:55 am | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | topdawg2003 wrote: Baseballer02 wrote: topdawg2003 wrote: well, i just have to say, i'd prefer it if i only got advice from NL players, who are playing similar stakes as me or bigger... cause the lower stakes tables play completely different, i was playing those less than a year ago...
Then take it over to the MID-stakes NL forum on 2+2. Congratulations on proving yourself to be a pretentious prick. I can't say for all responders, but I know for a fact that Ace and Hof trump your passive ass in terms of NL skill, and you should be thankful they took the time to give you advice.
Don't ask for advice if it's not what you're looking for. If you truly wanted advice you wouldn't make an argument to every response. You wanted sympathy because you played like a donk and stacked off, don't try to deny it.
yup, i must really suck... this was one hand from a 3 hour session... i was playing 3 tables at a time, and went through about 160 hands or so and des... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: topdawg2003 at February 12, 2006, 6:37 am | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | Baseballer02 wrote: You wanted sympathy because you played like a donk and stacked off, don't try to deny it.
yup, you're right... i actually cried myself to sleep that night over that $600 i lost on that one hand... i still wasn't consoled by the +$400 net gain from the session... honestly, i think i used up about another $400 in tissues wiping my tears... so really it was more like a $1000 loss...
one last point... anyone who advocates playing the same hand, the same way in every spot against every oponent should pick a different game... cause poker is not for you.... if i'm gonna robotically reraise with AK every time, i'm gonna get reamed playing poker... good luck to you that do play that way... | | Static Link |
| Posted by: topdawg2003 at February 12, 2006, 6:17 am | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | Baseballer02 wrote: topdawg2003 wrote: well, i just have to say, i'd prefer it if i only got advice from NL players, who are playing similar stakes as me or bigger... cause the lower stakes tables play completely different, i was playing those less than a year ago...
Then take it over to the MID-stakes NL forum on 2+2. Congratulations on proving yourself to be a pretentious prick. I can't say for all responders, but I know for a fact that Ace and Hof trump your passive ass in terms of NL skill, and you should be thankful they took the time to give you advice.
Don't ask for advice if it's not what you're looking for. If you truly wanted advice you wouldn't make an argument to every response. You wanted sympathy because you played like a donk and stacked off, don't try to deny it.
yup, i must really suck... this was one hand from a 3 hour session... i was playing 3 tables at a time, and went through about 160 hands or so and despite losing $600 on this ha... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: FeelingLucky at February 12, 2006, 6:05 am | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | carpediem83 wrote: topdawg2003 wrote: the $150 bet on the river was a value bet (into a fairly large pot), i think he would've paid it off with a hand like A9 - AQ... 3 hearts just didn't scare me for some reason cause i put him on a worse ace...
If he actually had worse ace as you put him on, why would he not bet the flop? It just doesn't seem to make any sense to check the flop with pair of aces and give two players a free card for no reason.
Exactly my sentiment here (you beat me to it, Carpediem). This, I believe, is a key part of the scenario. If we completely lay the preflop and flop parts of the OP's play aside (though the discussions on that are indeed very interesting and warranted), the rest of the hand comes down to what DrStrange asked at the end of the last page - what hands did you put him on.
Personally I wouldn't possibly put him on any kind of ace, after he checked the flop - with the only possible exception AA that he is trying to be tricky with... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: carpediem83 at February 12, 2006, 4:36 am | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | topdawg2003 wrote: the $150 bet on the river was a value bet (into a fairly large pot), i think he would've paid it off with a hand like A9 - AQ... 3 hearts just didn't scare me for some reason cause i put him on a worse ace...
If he actually had worse ace as you put him on, why would he not bet the flop? It just doesn't seem to make any sense to check the flop with pair of aces and give two players a free card for no reason. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: WhooFleuryScores at February 11, 2006, 11:42 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: Don't get me wrong Im the weakest of the weak tight players. and by not reraising preflop you are asking to get drawn out by some bullshit like Q4s
I have you beat.I am the epitome of weak tight lol.
Reraise preflop;pay off AA and KK.On the flop push if not by the turn.Pay off a set if he has it. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: PollyAmory at February 11, 2006, 9:22 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | elric wrote:
topdawg2003 wrote: despite it being a passive play, the flat call PF is the best play in my mind...
You need to put down the crack pipe dawg! Lets say you played pocket rockets the same exact way, you would end up in the same nasty train wreck you created with your AK. WTF do I know? Keep letting everyone have free cards, call all your money off at the river and lets see how long it takes for you to have a bankroll that rhymes with HERO!
I read the passage in Lindgren's WPT book today that specifically addresses this very scenario and his preferred play is to call the raise with AK out of the blinds and then check to the raiser post-flop. Granted, he is talking about early rounds of a deep stack poker tournament, but the situations are not dissimilar.
So to call that particular play crack-pipe stupid is an overstatement at least
-- Polly
P.S. I'm a $25NL player. Just so you know, Dawg.
_________________
Jim is the be... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Baseballer02 at February 11, 2006, 9:08 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | topdawg2003 wrote: well, i just have to say, i'd prefer it if i only got advice from NL players, who are playing similar stakes as me or bigger... cause the lower stakes tables play completely different, i was playing those less than a year ago...
Then take it over to the MID-stakes NL forum on 2+2. Congratulations on proving yourself to be a pretentious prick. I can't say for all responders, but I know for a fact that Ace and Hof trump your passive ass in terms of NL skill, and you should be thankful they took the time to give you advice.
Don't ask for advice if it's not what you're looking for. If you truly wanted advice you wouldn't make an argument to every response. You wanted sympathy because you played like a donk and stacked off, don't try to deny it. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 11, 2006, 8:04 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | topdawg2003 wrote: well, i just have to say, i'd prefer it if i only got advice from NL players, who are playing similar stakes as me or bigger... cause the lower stakes tables play completely different, i was playing those less than a year ago...
Thems fightin words dawg!
I take serious offense to your condenscending tone. I will have you know that I play in the largest play money games on the net and am a self made play chip bazillionaire.
WTF being passive pre-flop with superior holdings, passive on the flop when you hit the flop you want... If you play this way at any level and want to wait till the river to call off all your money you are going to go broke.
topdawg2003 wrote: yes, in a lot of spots i reraise wiht AK, but not in the SB and not against a player i don't think is capable of making a tough laydown...
Q4s is a tough laydown?
topdawg2003 wrote: despite it being a passive play, the flat call PF is the best play in my... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mikke_ at February 11, 2006, 7:23 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | Wadaphuic wrote: The problem as I see it is you know you fucked up and you don't seem willing to accept honest critique of the hand, but what really hurts you is having your two top pair getting done by Q4
The hand you had is not a hand to slowplay and you payed the penalty for trying to be too smart.
I understand your reasoning for not raising pre-flop, however, after it had been checked around on the flop, you should have bet the turn.
If you'd led out on the turn with a pot size bet, then if the cutoff was on a draw, unless he was completely retarded, he didn't have the odds or position to call, however if he did call it and hit, it was his mistake and there's fuck all you can do about it except take it on the chin.
I realise you only want to know about your play on the river, however, as some of the posters have tried to explain - it should never have got that far...
Dr Stange's summary was excellent (I hope I get the same feedback if I post... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Wadaphuic at February 11, 2006, 4:41 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | The problem as I see it is you know you fucked up and you don't seem willing to accept honest critique of the hand, but what really hurts you is having your two top pair getting done by Q4
The hand you had is not a hand to slowplay and you payed the penalty for trying to be too smart.
I understand your reasoning for not raising pre-flop, however, after it had been checked around on the flop, you should have bet the turn.
If you'd led out on the turn with a pot size bet, then if the cutoff was on a draw, unless he was completely retarded, he didn't have the odds or position to call, however if he did call it and hit, it was his mistake and there's fuck all you can do about it except take it on the chin.
I realise you only want to know about your play on the river, however, as some of the posters have tried to explain - it should never have got that far...
Dr Stange's summary was excellent (I hope I get the same feedback if I post a hand here) and if you'... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: PollyAmory at February 11, 2006, 4:21 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | The pot's $336 on the river. You and I might disagree, but just under half-pot is too big for a value bet once the river comes a heart. Your chances of getting paid off by top pair lower kicker and non-ace two-pair hands are seriously reduced. You gotta calculate that fact into your bet amount even if you don't put him on a flush.
To quote my personal poker sensei (who said this just today, actually) "If he doesn't have it, it's a scare card for him too."
-- Polly
_________________
Jim is the best!
http://www.parttimepoker.com/poker-humor/freerollking/FR-handofweek-jacks.htm wrote: Not much you can do when you have the nuts and someone has the super nuts. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: topdawg2003 at February 11, 2006, 4:04 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | PollyAmory wrote: topdawg2003 wrote: well, i just have to say, i'd prefer it if i only got advice from NL players, who are playing similar stakes as me or bigger... cause the lower stakes tables play completely different, i was playing those less than a year ago...
What is the purpose of your 150 bet on the river? I'm not being sarcastic -- I'd really like to know the thoughts behind the river bet.
-- Polly
agreed, i played it poorly from the river onward... not arguing with that at all... as i said, thats where i wanted advice on that part of the hand... i mean we could debate that all day, but against this particular opponent in this particular spot, i played it correctly (at least in my opinion)... i have no problem with people disagreeing, but i just want the right to defend my play there... if u still disagree, great, play it however you want when you're in that spot...
polly, thanks for the assessment of the hand... i agree with w... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: PollyAmory at February 11, 2006, 3:25 pm | | Topic: what's the best play in this spot.... Forum: Bonus Whores | AceM wrote: Reraise preflop, bet more on turn, make blocking bet on river fold to all in.
This hand doesn't go to showdown if it's reraised pre-flop. Even if CO calls, todd leads for 1/2 or 2/3 the pot on the flop and takes it.
If you call pre-flop, it's not unreasonable to expect a continuation bet from PFR on an ace-high flop. Especially an aggressive PFR. I imagine it is marginal and read-dependent decision here.
I have no comment on the turn play cause I just don't know. After being checked around, I'd prob lead but I'm sure there are arguments for checking too so...
I don't like the river play. Not at all. It's not the call that I have an issue with, it's the 150 dollar bet.
It's too big to be a value bet. It's too big to be a blocking bet. It's too big, not to mention innapropariate,* to be a weak lead (although if it was, it worked spectacularly, so there shouldn't be a question at all.)
I'd have bet around 100 knowing that i... | | Read Entire Entry |
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