| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at March 12, 2006, 3:06 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | | If it's any consolation, I'm down about $800 on the latest bonus from Party - combination of a lot of good drawing hands that missed and a couple of ugly bad beats. *shrug* It happens. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mtxed at March 11, 2006, 11:19 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | I go down on the 1/2 Party bonus again.....Love it, more hands I play, more beats I get.. In my first 400 raked hands I get the best dealt hands ANYONE can wish for yet I still go down losing money simply because percentages mean jack****.. I go into turn and river being MORE than a 3:1 favourite and I still lose.. I get the hand dealt to me again next time and everyone folds..GG
I then go play one table of 3/6 and don't get dealt a single playable card for 45 minutes and when I do, I lose that too and go down half my bankroll.. if I am really such a bad player, my whole bankroll would be gone. it's funny that I can profit off bad players at sites like POKER4EVER while I lose more than ever to bad plays @ Party. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mtxed at March 4, 2006, 6:37 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Betfred is such a joke. And after listening to all the advice here I am still losing money big time even though my play is good.
I can't even win or buy a god damn hand there......I get completely crap cards dealt to me in 1 hour and the time I get dealt pocket pairs, none of them flops a set....I bought in $210 for the initial bonus and now I am down to $50 and im only around 60% complete.... AND THIS WAS ALL PLAYING 1/2 ARE YOU KIDDING ME..HOLY MOTHER**@)(#*@# | | Static Link |
| Posted by: londonenns at February 14, 2006, 2:33 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | elric wrote: I would double the number of tables I am playing that way you can make up for your lost winnings by increasing your volume.
very good point!
_________________
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| Posted by: pokahpro at February 11, 2006, 3:18 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: I just added another screenshot with a detailed look at my PT stats and yes they are bad. Thanks for the advice. Most, if not all, of the stuff you said is right. I'm playing scared because I don't know how else to play. Once I call to the river and get beat (and sometimes you know you're beat), I stop calling to the river altogether because I simply do not want to waste more chips. To me, then, is pointless to play unless you hold a monster or the absolute "nuts".
Just an observation, if only playing the nuts is your style of play try O8, you can actually make a profit doing that. Not ideal but at least you won't be losing your shirt. And it's probably easier to multitable in the beginning. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Mikke_ at February 9, 2006, 5:06 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | DrStrange wrote: Mikke,
The number of hands you play using the recomendations depends on the table. If the table is really agressvive there are many limping hands and some raising hands that get mucked. If the table is passive, you will play a lot more hands. So in short - it depends.
What I really meant was what the VP%IP would be over a very large number of hands - to average out table dynamics. Say 100,000 hands. The reason why I asked is that I pretty much stick to the recommendations, although I am a bit looser if the table is loose, and my VP$IP is generally in the 17-23%. Just idle curiosity really.
_________________
Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: DrStrange at February 9, 2006, 4:56 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Mikke,
The number of hands you play using the recomendations depends on the table. If the table is really agressvive there are many limping hands and some raising hands that get mucked. If the table is passive, you will play a lot more hands. So in short - it depends. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Mikke_ at February 9, 2006, 4:47 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: Links to the preflop charts: 2+2 link. It is toward the bottom of the FAQ. You really should read the book, though, as these are just guidelines only. And whatever you do, ONLY use the "tight" charts - online games never adhere to the "loose" standards of 6+ players/flop on average.
I had made up my own reference sheets from SSHE for this, but the single page one I found from here is easier to use - thanks for that.
Whilst I was comparing it to the Sklansky recommendations, I saw that it was slightly different (e.g. less 77 play), but more or less the same.
I also looked at the recommended PT figures, and whilst generally happy, I found a few leaks I need to work on.
But whist doing all this, something came to mind, and I was wondering if anyone knew the answer. If you play one of these tight pre-flop charts in the same way as a BJ chart - i.e. ideal play, what would your VP$IP turn out to be in the long run?
_... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: thunder2048 at February 9, 2006, 11:58 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | I agree with the others, you definetely need to play less tables, and maybe lower limits for now. Personally, I play 6 tables no problem on party when I play NL 25$ (10c/25c) but I drop to 4 tables when playing NL 50$ (25c/50c). My stats are way better than yours and I dont even consider myself ready for NL 100$ (50c/1$), but soon!
You will need to work on your agressivity. Sure playing agressive will get you to pay more sometime when others get strong hand, but that's the way to make money. You ever saw people folding AA preflop? I did (not on the Internet), because they were scared to lose the pot because it was too high for them. Playing scared just dosent work, your profit will be:
"the money won from winning pot" - "The money lost folding or losing hand"
Well, playing scared will decrease the "money won" so much that it will be lower than the "money lost" even if that lost money value decrease.
As a general rule, y... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 9, 2006, 8:13 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | I already commented on your first screen earlier, from reviewing my post I don't have much to add.
mtxed wrote:
I didn't realize my VP$IP dropped to 11%.....2 months ago it was at 17%.....
Yeah, that shows just how ultra-tight you've become. To drop that much requires an excessively tight game, in the neighborhood of 5-6%. Trust me, only your braindead opponents haven't noticed how tight you've become. I can't make money from somebody like you generally, but I simply avoid you when you're in a hand unless I've got a premium hand or I hit the flop super-hard. Just not worth it - which means you are also probably in the situation of winning small pots (when everybody folds), and when they do stay in, you're losing big ones.
Your blind stealing and defense #'s are horrendous, but I think you need to focus on getting a solid preflop/postflop game going before we start work on that. You should be playing lower limits ($1/$2) during that process, so blind s... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 9, 2006, 7:54 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | mtxed wrote: Good idea, maybe starting a new database will bring my spirits, hopes, and attitudes up and hopefully that will lead to me being a winner ! I'm still waiting for SSHE by Miller/Skansky to arrive in my mailbox but once I receive it I'll read it asap. Is there an online version of the preflop chart anywhere? I don't think my preflop is too bad, it's just I play super tight which is driven by the attititude that "all starting hands, except monsters, suck because the % of them hitting on the flop is low."
DrStrange gave a LOT of good advice in his reply, much of which I would have said myself, so I won't repeat it.
You really need to read SSHE badly. I'm really thinking that book will help you a lot, just in terms of regaining your aggression. Quite frankly, although I believe your postflop play is getting you in a lot of trouble, your preflop isn't good either. Playing super-tight isn't helping you, and you are giving up a LOT of EV in the process. ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 9, 2006, 1:34 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | DrStrange wrote: mtxed,
Playing eight tables you learned some really bad habits that need to be unlearned. It takes a major shift in strategy to drop from VP$iP 17% to 11% that quickly. I fear your last month was more like a VP$iP of 5% to pull the average down that fast. I expect careful study of the last six weeks would show other equally bad habits. Lets start with a clean slate because you sound like a capable player who has been tilted off into no-man's land.
You need to re-start your game. Your past losses are gone. Forget them. You might even consider starting a new pokertracker database. The past was ugly and now it is over. I think your first goal should be to relearn ABC poker. Go get a copy of the preflop starting hands from Miller and Sklansky ( NOT the loose version, the tight version) and use it as a guide to get your preflop agression and starting hand selection back to a more effective level. Preflop is relatively easy to fix compared to post flop, so... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: DrStrange at February 9, 2006, 12:51 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | mtxed,
Playing eight tables you learned some really bad habits that need to be unlearned. It takes a major shift in strategy to drop from VP$iP 17% to 11% that quickly. I fear your last month was more like a VP$iP of 5% to pull the average down that fast. I expect careful study of the last six weeks would show other equally bad habits. Lets start with a clean slate because you sound like a capable player who has been tilted off into no-man's land.
You need to re-start your game. Your past losses are gone. Forget them. You might even consider starting a new pokertracker database. The past was ugly and now it is over. I think your first goal should be to relearn ABC poker. Go get a copy of the preflop starting hands from Miller and Sklansky ( NOT the loose version, the tight version) and use it as a guide to get your preflop agression and starting hand selection back to a more effective level. Preflop is relatively easy to fix compared to post flop, so begin there.
... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 8, 2006, 11:13 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: Some fast observations, as I'm getting ready to head off to bed:
1) VP$IP. Way, way, WAY too low. On the 3 levels that you have a statistically relevant sample ($1/$2, $2/$4, $3/$6), you're hovering in the 10.5% range. Your 8-tabling is killing you - you absolutely need to open this up. Any good player will notice you not playing many hands and will get out of your way when you get involved unless they have very strong holdings. And you are giving up a huge amount of EV by throwing away all those "marginal" hands.
2) PFR. Too low. At most of those levels, you should be raising 7-8% (at least, if not more). Again, anybody paying any attention at all will notice that you raise preflop rarely, and that you are telegraphing a strong hand when you do.
3) WtSD%/W$SD%. These numbers are fairly skewed as well. WtSD% should be in the low 30's (31-33% or so), and your W$SD% should be lower (55% or so). What these numbers show is that you ar... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 8, 2006, 11:05 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Some fast observations, as I'm getting ready to head off to bed:
1) VP$IP. Way, way, WAY too low. On the 3 levels that you have a statistically relevant sample ($1/$2, $2/$4, $3/$6), you're hovering in the 10.5% range. Your 8-tabling is killing you - you absolutely need to open this up. Any good player will notice you not playing many hands and will get out of your way when you get involved unless they have very strong holdings. And you are giving up a huge amount of EV by throwing away all those "marginal" hands.
2) PFR. Too low. At most of those levels, you should be raising 7-8% (at least, if not more). Again, anybody paying any attention at all will notice that you raise preflop rarely, and that you are telegraphing a strong hand when you do.
3) WtSD%/W$SD%. These numbers are fairly skewed as well. WtSD% should be in the low 30's (31-33% or so), and your W$SD% should be lower (55% or so). What these numbers show is that you are doing too much "fit... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 8, 2006, 10:48 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Here's my main PT screen:
And these losses dont include the hands that are NOT being tracked (i.e. I play on the PokerRoom network a lot via their Java client and the hundreds i lost playing @ B2B)...
I didn't realize my VP$IP dropped to 11%.....2 months ago it was at 17%..... | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 8, 2006, 10:06 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | elf23 wrote: 10-1 says you aren't losing money with JJ, QQ, KK, AA, or AK
5-1 says you play too weak-tight
If I lost money with JJ QQ KK AA, I'd be -$4000 now ....it's just that Im not winning enough with those hands to make a profit......I probably am weak tight, going to post my PT screen now. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elf23 at February 8, 2006, 9:42 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | 10-1 says you aren't losing money with JJ, QQ, KK, AA, or AK
5-1 says you play too weak-tight
_________________
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Lisa: Poor predictable Bart...always chooses Rock
Bart: Good ol' Rock, nothing beats Rock. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 7, 2006, 6:51 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Hmm... you may be getting to the root cause there a bit too. You can't play your hands the exact same way against every opponent - if you want to multitable, you should really be using PT and a HUD like PokerAce to play. This will help give you the reads on the styles of the different players you are up against, save you a lot of hassle in the long run. Let's say I raise on the button with QJs after 1 limper in EP. BB and the limper both call.
BB is an absolute maniac. Wickedly aggressive, plays a ton of crap cards.
Limper is a loose passive fish.
Flop comes KQ4, rainbow (all the wrong suits for me). It is checked to me. I bet out. Two scenarios:
1) BB check-raises me, Limper folds. I go into call-down mode, betting out on any street that BB checks to me. If he check-raises me again, I'll go into flat call-down mode. BB is a moron who LOVES to bluff and push people around, no reason to get stupid with him, my middle pair is most likely good.
2) BB ca... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 7, 2006, 5:55 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | TheFakeG wrote: Quote: Lately Ive been calling all the way to the river (with lots of doubt that I may or may not win the hand) and surprisingly Ive won more than I can imagine.
One shouldn't play poker if all you are willing to bet on are monster hands, especially when people are able to be bluffed out of hands. Pot odds in Limit dictate a lot more "calling to the river" with marginal hands than a PL or NL game normally would.
Besides that, have you considered that your uber-tight table image is seen by others as "easily bluffable"? Just a thought, that's all
Quote: Maybe I should call more often even though I do not hold the nuts or the best hand?
Even if you lose at showdown, seeing more of what cards your opponents are willing to bet and play is valuable information to take notes on. Notes can be simple stuff, like "Always bets TPTK", "Raises with any Ace", and my favorite: "Shows the ab... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: porkrind at February 7, 2006, 5:03 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Elric is being a smarty pants so pay no attention to the man behind the curtains.
All is well.
All is well.
_________________
Recent 3/6 chat on Crypto:
"Sooted three gappers piss me off"
"You are a donkey"
"FU azzwipe"
"Do you screw farm animals too?"
"Yes, No, Maybe, Who cares..."
BW member? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 7, 2006, 4:40 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | I would double the number of tables I am playing that way you can make up for your lost winnings by increasing your volume.
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| Posted by: TheFakeG at February 7, 2006, 3:15 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: Lately Ive been calling all the way to the river (with lots of doubt that I may or may not win the hand) and surprisingly Ive won more than I can imagine.
One shouldn't play poker if all you are willing to bet on are monster hands, especially when people are able to be bluffed out of hands. Pot odds in Limit dictate a lot more "calling to the river" with marginal hands than a PL or NL game normally would.
Besides that, have you considered that your uber-tight table image is seen by others as "easily bluffable"? Just a thought, that's all
Quote: Maybe I should call more often even though I do not hold the nuts or the best hand?
Even if you lose at showdown, seeing more of what cards your opponents are willing to bet and play is valuable information to take notes on. Notes can be simple stuff, like "Always bets TPTK", "Raises with any Ace", and my favorite: "Shows the ability to check-raise&quo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: splat at February 7, 2006, 2:10 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | | Post some of your PT stats. Also, try reading a different book - lots of people like Jones but once I read it I found I was just breaking even again. I like SSH, but try a few different books, post your stats, play fewer tables and play a limit you're comfortable at to regain your confidence. All the advice above is good. GL. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 7, 2006, 1:52 pm | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | OK, I will play 4 tables max from now on until I clear the -$2000 in PT. Does that sound like a good enuf strategy for minimizing losses?
ANd I just read all your posts, a lot of you are saying Im playing too tight, the reason Im playing tight is because that's how Ive been taught to play. Tight, aggressive, call weak hands and low pocket pairs only when you are mid-late position and at least 5 people in the hand and no one has raised. That is the basic concept of tight-aggressive play no?
Perhaps Im folding too much? Lately Ive been calling all the way to the river (with lots of doubt that I may or may not win the hand) and surprisingly Ive won more than I can imagine. Maybe I should call more often even though I do not hold the nuts or the best hand? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: TheFakeG at February 7, 2006, 11:42 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | I don't know if it's a good thing that you finally figured out that you were a big losing player at poker, or if it's a bad thing that it took you 12 months to figure this out....but the first step to fixing a problem is admitting that you have a problem (or several, in this case) - so take the words of the posters here to heart, apply them to your game, and soon enough you'll hit that "winning player" status.
Like everyone is saying, cut this 6 to 8 table shit out immediately. You're not good enough right now where you should even be considering 6 & 8-tabling, no matter how many bonuses you might actually be clearing.
Stick to 1 or 2 tables, and actually pay attention to the action going on in front of you. Take notes on players, and don't play the same hand the same way all the time.
Don't be such a tightass at the tables. Yes, it sucks when you wait 3 orbits and finally catch AA, then some douchebag like me sticks around and cracks it with the omnipotent... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: hofdaddy at February 7, 2006, 9:43 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Yeah I gotta agree with these guys. Stop playing so many tables and concentrate on making yourself a solid player. After that happens then you can go back to 6-8 tabling but this time you will be a money making machine.
If you're a limit player, have a limit player look at your PT stats and see if they can find a leak in your game. Don't be ashamed to turn it all over. There should be quite a few guys that would look at your stats and be able to tell you what the major leak is or what you need to change in order to be a better player or just to avoid making a few less bad calls. It's time to swallow that pride and seek a little help grasshoppa
_________________
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-hofdaddy's trinity
give a woman an inch and she takes a foot. Give her a foot and she'll moan like a whore | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 7, 2006, 9:36 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | | You really need to stop playing so many tables for a little bit and focus on 2-3 tables max. Get your game back into a groove. The first thing I do when I'm in a slump is cut back on the # of tables I'm trying to play, to focus on making my reads, etc. better. 6-8 tables you can't be doing anything except the weak-tight "fit or fold" style of poker, which is not conduicive to being profitable. Maybe you might find it a bit "boring", but when you've folded out of a hand, try doing things like guessing what the UTG+1 raiser has. It will make you a better poker player, trust me. And the last thing you should be doing while you're having troubles is moving up in limits just to work on bonuses, that's a recipe for disaster. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: BigPoppa at February 7, 2006, 9:24 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | mtxed wrote: I usually play 6-8 tables....
Is it the way Im playing?...if poker games are so "variant", then I wouldnt be losing 6 tables and winning 2.....and I wouldnt be winning at all 8 tables too....nope, I fking lose at all 8 tables.. if that's called variance then there is no way of winning for me..
Why the fuck are you playing 6-8 tables if you're losing?
Try playing 2 and actually paying attention to your opponents and the flow of the game.
_________________
"I want those motherfuckin' snakes off this motherfuckin' plane!" | | Static Link |
| Posted by: porkrind at February 7, 2006, 3:50 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | He has a point.
As a low limit BW unless you are playing winning poker and grinding every angle bonus, rakeback, cashback, prizes, tshirts....... variance and the rake will slowly grind you away.
_________________
Recent 3/6 chat on Crypto:
"Sooted three gappers piss me off"
"You are a donkey"
"FU azzwipe"
"Do you screw farm animals too?"
"Yes, No, Maybe, Who cares..."
BW member? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: TheJourneyman at February 7, 2006, 1:14 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | maybe don't play so many tables and work on your game more.
also don't play higher stakes just because the bonus clears faster - that is a recipe for disaster if your game is not there yet.
if you use poker tracker, go back and look at your hands. yeah you may be getting sucked out on quite a bit but i am sure you can find some leaks - everyone has em.
AA KK QQ JJ - great hands but you have to win with more than just that to be a winner in poker - are you playing too tight? PT can help with that.
step back a bit and maybe play 2-3 tables till you get your confidence back and then slowly work back up to 6-8 tables.
try to learn another game just to get another perspective on poker in general.
read another book - there are a lot of good ones out there
just a few ideas
GL
CHE | | Static Link |
| Posted by: mtxed at February 7, 2006, 12:43 am | | Topic: Help. *Updated with screenshots/stats. Forum: Bonus Whores | Someone please tell me how to win in online poker. Ive played for a year and I am progressively getting worse and worse. I was down $1600 about a month ago but I'm close to being down $2300 now. Thankfully this does NOT include the bonus $$ I have earned. Without the fkin bonus $$ I'd be begging my ass on the streets.. Without the fkin bonus $$ I Wouldn't have this new 19" LCD to multitable ..In the past, clearing bonuses were just routine and I'd always break even or make some profit too. Now I'm going down $100 even after I get the bonus. The higher the stakse I play, the more $ I lose. I usually don't lose much in 1/2, but PT still says I am down in 1/2 and there are fewer and fewer bonuses that can be done at 1/2. Thus I have to move onto 2/4 and 3/6, where I take an even more catastrophic hit.
Honestly I don't think it's the way I play (could be, but not close to being 100% the scapegoat), but rather the cards and the fuckin SHITTY luck I get. It's not the lack of awesome ha... | | Read Entire Entry |
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