| Posted by: Montana.T at March 27, 2006, 6:29 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | elf23 wrote: 14/3 is a MAJOR leak, not a minor one, especially at .5/1 through 2/4
it seems like you already have tight starting hand selection - why don't you try raising if you are first in every single time for awhile and see what happens.
my my, that does have some interesting consequences
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| Posted by: WhooFleuryScores at February 16, 2006, 9:07 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: When I'm the first to enter the pot, I usually raise around 3BBs if I'm first in.
Standard raise;I do this the same regardless or AA to AJs to mixing up my play with 78s.Good stuff. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: AJ at February 15, 2006, 9:24 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | | I didn't read back up to see who referenced a rock, but it wasn't me...but when I think of a rock, I think of someone who has a VP$IP of no more than 10% or so. They're too transparent -- when they raise, coming in, they have AA, KK, QQ, AK or maybe AQ or JJ. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: roy at February 15, 2006, 6:27 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | | before i switched to nl, i played very tight preflop in limit. 15 vpip or so, pfr~6%i still made 2bb/100 between 1/2 and 2/4, because i played very aggressively postflop. everybody respected my bets, so they folded a lot to me. about half of my bets were bluffs/semi-bluffs, and they worked great. if you play really tight, you HAVE to play really aggressive too. maybe super-tight/superaggressive isn't what you mean by rockish play, though. if you mean only super-tight passive play, then i agreee that it won't do that well. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 15, 2006, 3:04 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | SMRacine wrote: elric wrote: SMRacine wrote: elric wrote: elric likes to limp with small pairs in NLHE.
smracine thinks it's funny elric refers to himself in the third person.
elric is so huge that he is like a 3rd person!
I wish I knew how to refer to myself in the 4th person....
Quote this a few more times and I think 4th person is inevitable!
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| Posted by: SMRacine at February 15, 2006, 2:10 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | elric wrote: SMRacine wrote: elric wrote: elric likes to limp with small pairs in NLHE.
smracine thinks it's funny elric refers to himself in the third person.
elric is so huge that he is like a 3rd person!
I wish I knew how to refer to myself in the 4th person....
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| Posted by: elric at February 9, 2006, 11:22 am | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | SMRacine wrote: elric wrote: elric likes to limp with small pairs in NLHE.
smracine thinks it's funny elric refers to himself in the third person.
elric is so huge that he is like a 3rd person!
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| Posted by: AJ at February 9, 2006, 10:49 am | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | I think Thunder makes a good point. Mind you, I've just switched to NL from limit recently, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I've got about 20k hands under my belt and am making about 3BB/100.
It's a given that aggressive poker is winning poker.
When I'm the first to enter the pot, I usually raise around 3BBs if I'm first in. I got that advice from Phil Gordon, and it works for me. It's also in line with Ed Miller's short stack strategy. Now Ed and Phil will vary their first-in raises some, but on the other hand, Phil has also said that, in his opinion, for a beginner, you can't go wrong with a 3BB first-in raise. For one, it does tend to isolate players, which is usually want you want, more so in NL than limit (where you can more easily chase draws), and by always raising the same amount, it disguises your hand. Furthermore, at the low limit tables where people tend to be passive, I probably take the blinds without a flop 2 out of 3 times. And right there, I've made e... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: SMRacine at February 9, 2006, 10:17 am | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | elric wrote: elric likes to limp with small pairs in NLHE.
smracine thinks it's funny elric refers to himself in the third person.
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| Posted by: thunder2048 at February 9, 2006, 8:41 am | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | I dont want to spoil the party, but you suffer a big lack of agression, so switching to NL would be "making sure your weakness cost you more money".
I see a lot a players at me NL tables (ok, party 10c/25c and 25c/50c...) who raise 1 BB (ex: at 10c/25c, they will raise to 50c) with very strong hands all the time. They fear that they will not get any callers if they raise too much and also fear that other will flop 2 pairs and they will be too pot commited on the flop. That's some of the mistakes passive NL players do and from your stats, I'd say without more agressiveness, you would end up a bit like this.
If you really want to play NL, I suggest your start a very low limits, even maybe micro limits on stars (1c/2c) to adjust your game before you bet in the real money. Beleive me, in NL, errors sometime cost a lot, often your entire stack. Playing passive is a good way to make mistakes, players will call you since you're not agressive enough, you wont get payd much with you... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: gimmedawatch at February 9, 2006, 2:46 am | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | | This is obviously an issue that has come up many times, but I will throw in my 2 cents. 1st, low limit NL full ring games typically have a lower variance than limit games which is a plus, and I RARELY have swings of more than 5 buy-ins. Also, I believe the edge you have over bad players (assuming you're a decent one) is greater in NL than in limit, which is also cool. I started out playing limit like most players, but frankly now I cant stand it. NL is infinitely more fun and interesting to me, in addition to the practical reasons stated above. Some bonuses dont clear very fast, but alot do (especially if you 5-6 table), so I would definitely recommend trying NL for 20-30K hands and see how you like it. As for websites to start with, Party and BetFred are great, nine and tiger are decent, and Paradise and Stars reloads go fairly quick. Bodog is great too. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: elric at February 7, 2006, 12:14 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | elric likes to limp with small pairs in NLHE. Everytime I get all the money in pre-flop with my small pairs I am up against Aces or Kings.
UTG I will limp with QQ, JJ, TT, 99 and usually fold the baby pairs at aggressive tables. On the button you want to see a flop with any pair and pop the pot with your big guns (AA, KK, AK, occasionally QQ, JJ, TT).
Flop me a cheap set and let me bust dem Rockets!
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| Posted by: hofdaddy at February 7, 2006, 9:52 am | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | Alphaunit1 wrote: Wow, do I need to break out Hilger's book and re-read it. I had no idea he advocated limping in EP with JJ and TT - maybe it is his way of keeping people out of trouble postflop?
I have never hesitated to fire out a raise UTG with those hands, as I don't want a lot of company for them. If you limp and let multiple people in, you really need to be playing them for set value only - if you don't flop a set, check/fold them. That is the real value of raising your hand preflop - taking the initiative for the hand, and making people fear really good cards (AA, AK, KK, QQ, etc.)
At an aggro FR NL game I will limp from EP with TT and JJ. To me those hands are easy to get away from (I've learned a hard lesson thanks to a Vegas donk) if the flop or turn gets too scary. When I hit my set it then becomes that sneaky little bitch that you're looking for.
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| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at February 6, 2006, 9:54 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | Wow, do I need to break out Hilger's book and re-read it. I had no idea he advocated limping in EP with JJ and TT - maybe it is his way of keeping people out of trouble postflop?
I have never hesitated to fire out a raise UTG with those hands, as I don't want a lot of company for them. If you limp and let multiple people in, you really need to be playing them for set value only - if you don't flop a set, check/fold them. That is the real value of raising your hand preflop - taking the initiative for the hand, and making people fear really good cards (AA, AK, KK, QQ, etc.) | | Static Link |
| Posted by: HartFlush at February 6, 2006, 8:54 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | I do use ITH charts by the way. It suggests to limp in early position with JJ and 10's. So I have been doing that. I mainly have gotten those hands in those positions. Also Hilger's book suggest to play suited connectors with lots of players and I don't find that the tables I am picking (my fault I know) are for that. There is not 4 callers before it gets to me. I have gotten more aggresive post flop and preflop lately and it has helped tremendously. My pre flop raise is approaching 6 percent since the new year. My aggression is 2.18 now.
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| Posted by: WhooFleuryScores at February 6, 2006, 7:42 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | Quote: it seems like you already have tight starting hand selection - why don't you try raising if you are first in every single time for awhile and see what happens.
I tried that at Eurobet when clearing SHAW right after the split and it was fold city before everyone caught on that I the Rock at the time was LAGging it up.
That being said:
Quote: 14.93 VPIP
This is horrible.While I am a bit tight myself(as evidenced from my previous post) if I see someone at the table with these stats as soon as they raise/bet/play back at me I fold no remorse no regrets whatsoever.You should follow the starting hand chart in ITH/SSH for knowing which hands to limp/raise/reraise and where.
Quote: 3.04 PF Raise %
This is also bad.Even during my trully rock days my PFR was still at least a 5.0;with your at 3.04 I can't imagine how much you can be winning with your AA/KK/QQ/AKs/AKo because I can presume those a... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at January 26, 2006, 12:09 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | | You're not aggressive enough, from those numbers. Could you post/PM the details from that section, not just the aggregate aggression numbers? There is a different formula that helps to see what your overall aggression frequency is, which helps to compare to your aggression factor, but the formula isn't built into PT - the #'s need to be calculate from the raw data in PT. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Alphaunit1 at January 25, 2006, 9:48 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | - I think the WTSD/W$SD figures are okay for that level, personally. (I generally fluctuate in the 32%/57-59% range for those figures.)
- 3% preflop raise is a huge leak - you are not getting people to commit bets to the pot when you have the stronger hand, a large error by any stretch. It also means that when you do raise, everybody scatters since you are not raising often enough (you raise, it means you have a very good hand - AA-JJ, AK, maybe AQ?). Waiting for the flop before you commit bets is bad - get your money into the pot while you are ahead. If you get a bad flop, re-evaluate then. (Your Att. to steal blinds is low as a result of this, but frankly I think that stat is rarely that important at this level.)
- <15% VP$IP is another large leak. At any level up to and including $2/$4, playing less than 17-20% of your hands is just flat-out being too tight. You need to get into more hands - WITH the caveat that you the control to dump weaker hands early on.
One t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: elf23 at January 25, 2006, 5:23 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | 14/3 is a MAJOR leak, not a minor one, especially at .5/1 through 2/4
attempt to steal blinds is also low (of course with 3% raising) and won at SD is a bit high.
I would guess that you play a very weak-tight game. If 1/2 is out of your comfort range then stay lower until you get more of a bankroll. You simply have to become comfortable playing more aggressive to beat these limits for all you can and being less and less of a rock becomes more and more important as you move up I think.
it seems like you already have tight starting hand selection - why don't you try raising if you are first in every single time for awhile and see what happens.
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| Posted by: HartFlush at January 25, 2006, 3:32 pm | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | Std Deviation/Hour: $17.74...........8.87 Big Bets
Standard Deviation/100 Hands $22.31...............11.15 BB
Sorry somehow they other statiscal service I used screwed that up.
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| Posted by: DrStrange at January 25, 2006, 7:35 am | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | Hartflush, I am struck by the size of your standard deviations (SD). I can't imagine how your numbers could be so high after looking at your other stats. A typical SD is about 17 for limit players while yours range from 35 to 70.
Playing 1/2 LHE with a SD of 56BB/100 and a -0.4BB/100 for 25,243 hands means you true win rate is 95% likely to be between -7.4BB/100 and +6.6BB/100. If you were a +2BB/100 player, 25% of the time you would run -0.4BB/100 over 25K hands.
Basically, you do not know if there is a leak in the game or just a run of bad luck. You will find lots of other threads talking about this same issue.
The only playing comments that come to mind are; a 3% PF raise is much too low where ever you play and a 15% VP$iP might be a bit low if you are playing on Party-style tables.
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| Posted by: HartFlush at January 25, 2006, 1:57 am | | Topic: No Limit/Pot Limit vs. Limit? Forum: Bonus Whores | I have been throwing the idea lately of switching to NL/PL over Limit. I will give you some stats to back up my claims. I have been running real bad at 1/2 limit. I kill at .50/1 over the time that I play but since July I have lost like $200 dollars playing 1/2 limit. I have been using a satistical site on the web since July to track all play online or live, sng's, multitable tournaments. I know usually that chasing bonuses that playing limit usually is the better way to go but certain bonuses pay better playing PL/NL like a couple come to mind Party Poker and a new site named BetFred Poker. There bonuses clear if the pots reach a $ 1 dollar as oppose to if you play limit the pot has to reach $ 5 dollars. Where at party that equals 5 big bets playing limit and 4 big bets playing NL/PL 25 buy in. BetFred you have to play .25/.50 blinds for NL/PL so the big bets equals 2 compared to 5 for .50/1 making both these bonuses more lucrative at No Limit or Pot Limit.
Well here are my stats:
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