| Posted by: fastchip at March 11, 2006, 2:32 am | | Topic: High Stakes Poker on Home Network WHAT ARE THEY PLAYING??? Forum: Card Chat |
Hi,
I am trying to get into this poker craze but I am stumped by what they are playing on a show called HIGH STAKES POKER on the Game channel.
The house deals two cards and only two cards to each player, I have seen the house get Three cards and then a fourth card but the fourth card was separated by a space indicating to me that somehow it didn't belong in the group of three cards.
When I was a kid many moons ago Poker was played with 5 cards, no matter what ariation of Poker we played, it was played with 5 cards. It seems to me that you ought to call Poker played with only two cards,Gin Rummy.
Please help me with this quandry. Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks,
fastchip
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| Posted by: MrSticker at March 11, 2006, 2:47 am | | Topic: High Stakes Poker on Home Network WHAT ARE THEY PLAYING??? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by fastchip
Hi,
I am trying to get into this poker craze but I am stumped by what they are playing on a show called HIGH STAKES POKER on the Game channel.
The house deals two cards and only two cards to each player, I have seen the house get Three cards and then a fourth card but the fourth card was separated by a space indicating to me that somehow it didn't belong in the group of three cards.
When I was a kid many moons ago Poker was played with 5 cards, no matter what ariation of Poker we played, it was played with 5 cards. It seems to me that you ought to call Poker played with only two cards,Gin Rummy.
Please help me with this quandry. Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks,
fastchip
I record every episode of "High Stakes Poker" and I've always seen them play only No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em. 2 cards per player. Then 3 cards face up on the board plus 1 & 1. A round of betting at each step. If all but one ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Scarfacecw at August 5, 2007, 3:49 pm | | Topic: full tilt book Forum: Card Chat |
Poker is luck and odds theres 52 cards per deck..........9 players playing 18 cards gone already so your down to 34 cards so you go atleast 1-34 chance of hitting your cards unless their already dead
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| Posted by: stormswa at August 19, 2007, 6:02 am | | Topic: new layout Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Effexor
I like the bars, still move them above the cards !!! It would be too easy to miss someone thats in the hand if the cards are hidden by the bars.
Looks great other than the cards being hidden. I think I'll try out the bars, much much cleaner look.
what are you talking about lol.
you do know when you play your stats are not displayed over your cards right? They are displayed in the corner of table or wherever you want to put them but you cant put them on top of your cards. If you mean their cards they are pretty easy to know if they have cards plus im changing the cardback back to yellow to be seen eaiser as for their mucked cards poker ace hud shows that at showdown anyway.
please explain.
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| Posted by: vanquish at August 5, 2007, 3:50 pm | | Topic: full tilt book Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Scarfacecw
Poker is luck and odds theres 52 cards per deck..........9 players playing 18 cards gone already so your down to 34 cards so you go atleast 1-34 chance of hitting your cards unless their already dead
Are you serious?
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| Posted by: TheJace at August 8, 2007, 7:45 pm | | Topic: full tilt book Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by Scarfacecw
Poker is luck and odds theres 52 cards per deck..........9 players playing 18 cards gone already so your down to 34 cards so you go atleast 1-34 chance of hitting your cards unless their already dead
Hahahahahaaa
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| Posted by: masterxx23 at April 24, 2006, 4:32 pm | | Topic: * * * RANDOM POKER CALCULATOR * * * Forum: Card Chat |
hows it going mate pokerlistings has a free to use poker calculator were you pick your own cards then the apponents cards then the flop,turn,and river cards and it then works out your percentages for the cards you have picked i dont know if thats what you were looking for but its the best thing i could think off.
masterxx23
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| Posted by: The_CPA at October 26, 2001, 7:58 am | | Topic: Orbital's dealer can't count Forum: Winner Online |
Orbital,RoyalPlaza and Fortune Room all are the new ersion with the icky little cards! LOL As I recall, I think Mary plays a lot of ideo poker. She likes those cards about the size of a cardbox Flap! I think all of these have the upgraded Cyber Stud Poker as well. I don't play a lot of poker, but I did ok with this. I'd Have to look to see if it's random cards or set up like a slot slot machine. Nice Look and feel to the table though.
------------------
http://www.CasinoPlayersAdvocate.com
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| Posted by: CoachMKV at May 25, 2005, 12:29 am | | Topic: Poker Card Cover Forum: Card Chat |
When playing live poker, sometimes cards gets mucked to your direction and possibly touch your cards. That's a dead hand (even if you have aces). Or sometimes, the dealer sees a bunch of cards in front of him/her and grabs your cards by accident which = dead hand. It protects your cards from the dealer and other cards. Also, it tells the people at the table that you are in the current hand. Some of them are players lucky charm. Hopefully you find the right one.
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| Posted by: Four Dogs at April 22, 2007, 1:57 pm | | Topic: Poker not rigged - LMAO Forum: Card Chat |
This is the kind of thing that sets people off. This happens at Full Tilt Poker too. These are not real cards. It's animation. Do you really think it takes 3 seconds for a computer to deal out the cards? Your cards and the cards of everyone at the table are selected instantaniously and before they land infront of you. The cards flying around the table and landing in your lap is just a cartoon. However, I'm sure that being able to see them before the deal is done is an unintended glitch. If you can figure out how to make use of it let us know.
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| Posted by: -Phil Ivey27 at October 8, 2007, 3:10 pm | | Topic: Howard Lederer on Full Tilt's RNG Forum: Card Chat |
Do u know that u can buy a rng machine and possibly(if your smart) hack into the system and get a quite acurate geuss on the next card coming up and the players whole cards. This came from WWW.POKEREAGLES.COM everything on rngs is pretty much there.
What is Poker RNG?(Priced at $457)
Poker RNG is a softwares that claim that it can figure the RNG formula of poker websites out. Therefore it can predict the community cards, the dominant suit on the flop, and hole cards of two other players at the table.
The way it works is that you punch in your Hole Cards and the Community Cards in the software (A screen shot of the actual software is shown below). Then based on it's database (which has been built by you) it will predict the flop, dominant suit on the flop and hole cards of two players at the table with an accuracy of 99.9%.
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| Posted by: superdave at March 19, 2005, 1:33 am | | Topic: poker on tv Forum: Card Chat |
World Poker Tour is the best on tv. Here in the states I rarely get to see Late Night Poker. I've seen it a few times though. American Poker Championship was unique. It showed ALL the hands. Not a diluted ersion where you think these guys are always getting good cards. It really shows how they play without cards.
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| Posted by: Kj Sexton at December 24, 2005, 11:34 am | | Topic: favourite deck? Forum: Card Chat |
I love my jack daniels playing cards , though the WPT poker cards were pretty good too. Though I like most cards just none of those imitation ones that come in the chip sets these days...
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| Posted by: johnph77 at February 3, 2005, 2:33 pm | | Topic: calculating odds Forum: Card Chat |
By calculation there are 133,784,560 possible 7-card poker hands.
The odds are 1::17 that you will catch any pair as your hole cards and, by inference, the chances those cards will be aces is 1::221.
On the other hand, mathematics, calculations and odds will least affect play in Texas Hold-Em than almost any other poker game. HE is a psychological game more than anything else. With only two cards hidden in each hand calculation of the odds of catching a particular card is relatively easy whereas in, say, 7-Card Stud, there are more cards isible and the calculations can become more difficult, what with having to remember who folded, how many cards they had exposed, what those cards were, etc. I'm not saying that psychology doesn't enter in Stud play, but the effect isn't as great as it is in HE.
gl
john
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| Posted by: steffne at July 13, 2005, 6:50 pm | | Topic: Hows this for the worst casino rule ever!! Forum: Card Chat |
This is a standard rule in all poker houses I have ever been in. I have never heard of the whisper one, which is quite amusing in my book. If your cards are not protected at all times, the dealer has every right to take them. Also, if any cards touch your cards, it is a mucked hand. So, the moral is, don't go pissing off dealers because they will and have taken cards that they shouldn't have.
Case in point, last nite, was at a casino, a guy was being a SUPER a-hole to everyone, and asked atleast 3 people to "step" outside w him. Well before long he and the dealer got into it, and while he was waiting for more chips to be delivered to him, he was dealt pct jacks, and of course had no chips to protect his hand, the dealer took his cards as soon as he looked away. It was a huge ordeal, but as stated, if cards are not protected, the dealer will always have the casino on their side.
As for Bubbasbestbabe, if your cards are protected by a chip, or whatever else you have, and cards ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: masboleh at October 22, 2006, 9:12 am | | Topic: Please Help! Do I have to show my mucked cards? Forum: Card Chat |
Do I have to show my mucked cards?
I was playing in my home poker tourney when this situation occured:
4 players, A, B, C and D were in the pot when player A, acting first bet out after the flop.
Action folded to D who called. Both players checked on the turn.
On the river, A bet and D called. After which, A mucked his cards (declaring D the winner) not wanting the others to know what he had bluffed with.
A slight disagreement broke out from the players who wanted to know A's cards, claiming since he bet first, he should reveal his cards. Whereas A argued that he need not show his cards since he 'surrendered' this game and mucked his cards.
This differs slightly from the all-in scenario. Who is in the right?
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| Posted by: maderj241 at April 7, 2005, 9:18 pm | | Topic: Omaha Hi Lo Forum: Card Chat |
OH8 is my favorite game to play, why? There are so many players out there who play it without having a clue what they're doing.
Each player gets 4 cards, and after that everything is done exactly as in Texas Hold'em. However, when you make your hands at the end you absolutely have to use 2 cards from your 4 in your hand. No more, No less. That's the aspect that confuses most players. Other than that, you're playing poker. Remember in Omaha that big hands are the rule. It's a game of fullhouses getting destroyed by other fullhouses, it's ery common.
A low pot consists of 5 cards 8 or less, suits aren't taken into account and neither is it if you have a straight although an Ace-5 straight is a powerful OH8 hand. Your low hand cards and your high hand cards don't have to be the same 2 cards from your hole cards....
Hope that helps
Justin
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| Posted by: shortstacked at June 29, 2006, 3:26 am | | Topic: Do you all "have a hand" Forum: Card Chat |
the two special cards that you LOVE to see in your pocket 'your hand'! The cards that no other average poker player would play, 'that hand always hits' you play it.
Do you all have this superstition? I find it amusing.I got a couple of buddies that always have to play certain hands(within reason). For example they won't play it late in a tournament into a big raise but will make moves with it all the time in cash games and online! Cracks me up.they really 'believe' that the hand is going to hit.
Even though I am a ery metaphysical/superstitious person Maybe I'm to pesimistic(sp?) and then the 'Card fairy' or 'Poker Gods' don't let those cards come up, because I don't believe! But, since my friends are SO excited to see those cards and believe in them so much they really come. But really if you play any hand over and over and over it WILL hit So
I really wasn't a believer, until I saw my friend hit quads with his hand, flop a boat, and hit a set all in the same damn day, hot, ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: TylerOC at October 2, 2006, 10:32 pm | | Topic: cheating possiblity? Forum: Card Chat |
i was in a tournament the other day, and was shocked when this other player started guessing my cards. i understand that sometimes she probably couldve guessed them closely, but she hit the dot on the first time saying i had AQ of clubs, even guessed the suit. it was when i was a super agressive player and i had been playing any two cards that game so there is no way i can think of that she knew my cards. are there ways that people cheat on poker sites to see other peoples cards? and if so is there any way i can defend myself. or is she just psychic?
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| Posted by: ~~Shelynn~~ at June 9, 2005, 3:46 pm | | Topic: freerolls Forum: Card Chat |
"POKER PLAYERS" I'm really proud of all of yothat made it. I Made the last one to get in and when I got in couldn't get no cards and didn't do worth a hoot. Maybe I can still get in if my cards help me out and if I don't ,I gave it my all. Poker is one, you can't bank on! Wish all Good Luck and Good Cards.
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| Posted by: PaisanDom at December 26, 2005, 10:47 am | | Topic: has anyone seen this crap?..pokerspying Forum: Bonus Whores | I did some more research, and the picture showing the cards is the same as the one shown on this site. www.cheat-at-poker.com which has a WHOIS out of Toronto.
I found a post on another forum, where a guy says he bought it as a research project and it works by spamming the site to get others to use it so everyone running it can see the other people's cards who are running it. i.e. You see their cards, they see your cards. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: xdmanx007 at June 4, 2005, 6:00 pm | | Topic: calculating odds Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by johnph77
By calculation there are 133,784,560 possible 7-card poker hands.
The odds are 1::17 that you will catch any pair as your hole cards and, by inference, the chances those cards will be aces is 1::221.
On the other hand, mathematics, calculations and odds will least affect play in Texas Hold-Em than almost any other poker game. HE is a psychological game more than anything else. With only two cards hidden in each hand calculation of the odds of catching a particular card is relatively easy whereas in, say, 7-Card Stud, there are more cards isible and the calculations can become more difficult, what with having to remember who folded, how many cards they had exposed, what those cards were, etc. I'm not saying that psychology doesn't enter in Stud play, but the effect isn't as great as it is in HE.
gl
john
Limit poker regardless of ersion is 90 percent about numbers bluffing and what not are only mildly profit... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: BuffClemins at June 13, 2005, 12:06 am | | Topic: Official "how on earth do i win freerolls" thread :p Forum: Card Chat |
It appears that the blinds increase rather quickly at that poker site you are playing at in a freerolll, my advice is not to play freerolls that have over 500 ppl in it because the blinds increase so fast. But their is so many people that it is hard to place even if you have a big chip leader at the start. I think if you werent getting anything and the blinds were getting high you should have started playing more aggressive. I always use this saying when playing cards
Poker is not a card game with people. When you play poker you dont always rely on your cards, cause something will happen like what happened to you, the blinds got high and your cards were no good so the blinds ate your chip stack.
This is the true statement......
Poker is a people game with cards. You have to take notes or whatever to find out how the person plays, if he is aggressive and likes to try to steal the blinds when he is in late position. RE raise him all in and hope he doesnt call to increase your ch... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Vegas Cat at January 14, 2007, 9:03 pm | | Topic: The New E-Poker, my thoughts Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by mbutler007
Interesting, I hadnt heard of E-Poker. My concern would be other players seeing my cards on the screen. How do they account for that possibility?
The screen you sit in front of is a touch screen based system.
Just like when physical cards are dealt to you face down, the cards dealt to you on the screen are face down. You would have to cup your hand around your hole cards, touch the screen to reveal what your hole cards are. Then when the hole cards are face down again, you can uncover the screen.
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| Posted by: perry at November 28, 2007, 9:08 pm | | Topic: Hitting The Wall Forum: Card Chat |
Thanks for your post Sonic X Preducer : I have one good book by Sklansky and have ordered another by Miller(?name). I have pretty much backed off most freerolls and now play at Absolute Poker with money. I've got alittle ahead playing small tourneys and sng games -- to make my life interesting I have had a week now of the raggiest cards I've seen online poker. I mean an endless pocket of 2's - 6's. If I get an A or K the other card is 2, 3, etc. I'm getting the feeling the poker gods have it in for me. I may develope a facial tick from these crummy cards. If I go in with a pair of, say 3's, I get beat by a pair of 4's. I hope others have had this experience where nothing works for you. I need some reinforcement that better cards will be coming - what a revolting developement.
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| Posted by: Jack Daniels at June 2, 2007, 6:17 am | | Topic: Hold'em no limit tournament, how many decks? Forum: Card Chat |
Well, if that's what you mean, then no. There is no casino or legitimate home game that plays hold'em with more than one deck of cards. In theory you could actually feed 22 players off of one single deck of cards...
22 player * 2 cards each = 44 cards
3 flop cards
1 turn card
1 river card
3 burn cards
44 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 52 cards. So there is no reason at all to have more than one deck.
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| Posted by: Jack Daniels at June 2, 2007, 4:33 pm | | Topic: Hold'em no limit tournament, how many decks? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by titans4ever
You should never see more than 11 at a poker table.
Yes, obv. My point was that theoretically you could serve 22 off of one deck based entirely on total cards needed, therefore there is absolutely no need ever to have a double deck used for play.
Quote: Originally Posted by titans4ever
Any more than that and it can start screwing with the odds to catch your outs.
How do you figure this? The odds of catching an out that you need is unchanged based on how many people are at the table. It is based on seen and unseen cards.
Examples (hole cards and flop exactly the same each time).
1. HU game. Flop comes out. You see your two cards and three flop cards. Five SEEN cards. The odds of you hitting an out you need is X.
2. Nine person table. Flop comes out. You see your two cards and three flop cards. Five SEEN cards. The odds of you hitting an out you need is X.
3. Twenty-two peo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Jack Daniels at November 18, 2006, 3:08 pm | | Topic: counting the flop Forum: Card Chat |
Quote: Originally Posted by tenbob
Poker is rigged.
Not Poker, just Flops.
Sandro, what you're explaining doesn't appear to be anything more that random distribution that your mind is finding a pattern in because it wants to. Even in nature there are patterns that do occur, sometimes with good reason.
Take your type 1 flop, with no face cards on the flop. You say that if this happens, then you can bet a face card is coming up. Well, yeah, I would think that is a better bet as that means that all of the face cards can be available to come up now since we didn't see any on the flop. If none came on the flop, then (counting aces) there are 16 face cards left of the 48 unseen cards (you didn't define pocket cards in your theory, so I'm assuming they are non-face cards. Even if they are face cards, the #s would be skewed proportionally so my example still stands). So if you mean just coming up on the turn, odds are just under 2 to 1 to hit a face card (vs little ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: titans4ever at June 2, 2007, 3:14 pm | | Topic: Hold'em no limit tournament, how many decks? Forum: Card Chat |
You should never see more than 11 at a poker table. Any more than that and it can start screwing with the odds to catch your outs. Most stay at 10 so you have 20 hole cards + burn and flop 4 + burn turn 2 + burn river = 28 cards. This represents just 2 cards over half the deck. This way things can stay more random because there are more cards to draw from.
For any type of tournament I run I plan on having 2 decks per a table if using paper cards or 1.5 decks if using plastic playing cards. This will make sure you have enough to last. As tables break down you should have enough to keep playing and we always open a new deck at the start of the final table.
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| Posted by: sowhatjerry at May 29, 2007, 9:23 pm | | Topic: Gift Cards and Poker Sites Forum: Card Chat |
well im from the US and i play at bodog most of the time because they offer western union withdrawal which benifits me the most, anyways what gift cards work on this site or any other major poker sites such as poker stars. I know the anilla isa gift cards don't work, they say fastcard on the back. I was wondering if the all access isa gift cards will work, saw them today at walbaums. Let me know of ones that do work, esp for bodog. thanks
jon
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| Posted by: DaAthiest at April 13, 2007, 4:27 pm | | Topic: Burn cards? why is this done ? Forum: Card Chat |
ok all i have been playing poker for 25 years, holdem for only a few and i have a question? why are the burn cards burned? i mean i never see burn cards online and i see sooooo many suck outs online could this be because of those 3 burn cards being in the deck .......and as far as that goes are the burn cards figured into the odds and should it figure in to the outs i think i should have ......its got to change something can anybody offer any insite
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| Posted by: Suited Frenzy at March 29, 2007, 5:01 am | | Topic: Finding the balance Forum: Card Chat |
The answer is simply.................IT'S POKER MAN. You can't do anything about bad beats or when the cards come or where they fall. Don't get so frustrated man, it's only poker. Now if this is your life & your dinner depends on it then maybe i would consider a different approach to life. It's simple, in a game that you have no control on how the cards come out then why get so upset.....yes some people play dumb sometimes but keep your emotions for something real. Don't use emotion like that on a game. Poker is only a game.
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| Posted by: bonuslover at November 16, 2002, 11:20 am | | Topic: Tiger Gaming Forum: Winner Online |
Pai Kow has been around for about 100 years and has been losing popularity among the Chinese. Pai Kow Poker is NOT a modified ersion of Chinese Poker (a.k.a. 13 Cards), but of Pai Kow, in which dominoes are used instead of cards.
A few rules are shared between Chinese Poker and Pai Kow Poker but I would say they are VERY different when it comes to strategies. The game has its roots in Hong Kong and is still ery popular. IMO it is a good game to play even between friends as there is no bluff in the game (if correctly played...they might have modified it to fit Western's taste in tigergaming though)
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| Posted by: SOMETIMESLUCKY at May 10, 2004, 12:08 pm | | Topic: Online Bingo - real or rigged? Forum: Winner Online |
I have always wondered just how many cards the "winners" have purchased. I sometimes play (ruby bingo) and usually buy no more than 10 cards (.50) sometimes I may purchase 20 cards (1.00) and get the bonus cards. I have never won and I wonder if it's the amount of cards I purchase s. the cards the others get.... I also don't think its rigged because of the community of players - but I have noticed that some people can win two or three times within my time of playing!
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| Posted by: 4aces07 at June 18, 2007, 9:37 pm | | Topic: Home game help? Forum: Card Chat |
Quote:
You lose the pot if you flip your cards over.
What? Are you sure? I can see this rule should apply in the middle of a hand but the other guy was allin.
I actually remember seeing Brian Townend show his cards to Paul Wasica to try to get a read on him, it was on high stakes poker. But again this was when the other player was allin.
I would of thought it would be ok if a player goes allin then the other player thinks for awhile, then flips over his cards. But in the game i was in he flipped over his cards as soon as the other player said allin.
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| Posted by: HCM at June 5, 2006, 11:48 am | | Topic: Jackpot Factory's Inspirational Stories Forum: Casino Meister |
Seems like all the content hasnt gone yet...found this on firstwebcasino on first look.
http://www.firstwebcasino.com/want-t...atch-cards.php
"Read about Celia and her scratch cards
I had never really thought much about any type of gambling so when we were coming home from work one night and Celia said she had to stop off and buy her scratch cards for the weekend. What? I said. Oh yes, she said to me. I like to buy scratch cards because they are really cheap and invariably I win something. Buying and getting bucks from scratch cards is awesome, she said. I was surprised. I had no idea Celia bought scratch cards.
Check out my scratch cards
Well Celia was right about something; the scratch cards were ery cheap and I figured I may as well buy some scratch cards too. And do you know what? The first of the scratch cards I scratched off came up trumps! I had won! I did not even need to bother with the other 2 scratch cards I had bought as... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: allndave at December 22, 2007, 5:12 pm | | Topic: Are the games controlled by the site? Forum: Card Chat |
if you believe on line poker is rigged don't play same goes for casino when the dealer puts the cards in the auto shuffler and they go below the table and they get stcked against you it's the same thing.or maybe the game is designed for action cards to hit the flop turn and river and everyone says well "thats poker"
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| Posted by: eaglelite at August 24, 2007, 10:48 am | | Topic: Here are some observations from playing Sit n Go’s and MTT's, and tips of my own Forum: Card Chat |
"Here are some observations from playing sit n go’s and mtt, along with some tips of my own
Well some people don’t care and still play at the any 2 cards can win mentality.
Don’t know why they do, need I care? Not really cause in the long run that mentality will lose much, much more. These are also the same people who never think about Position."
totally agree with the above statement, trying to shake that mentality off.
Quote: Originally Posted by mendozaline
I don't want to be critical, but this stuff is all out there in many books. This stuff all falls in the category of poker theory, and is alid, but remember poker isn't really so much a game of cards as it is a game of people played with cards. How one goes beyond the cards to the situation presented is the real question.
Can't understand this statement
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| Posted by: TheFranchise at March 5, 2005, 4:03 am | | Topic: My new starting hand guide for crypto's Forum: Bonus Whores | klo wrote: You don't want to be way way better than everyone else, because that would mean that everyone else was a total idiot, & while playing total idiots is profitable, there is a hitch: you must catch cards. Total idiots, by definition, cannot be outplayed. You will get paid off, but you cannot bluff.
Sorry, klo, but I also have to say something about this. The worse your opponents are, the better. It doesn't matter if you HAVE TO show down the best hand to win because as long as you know you can't bluff or even semi-bluff then you know what you have to do. Playing good poker is still playing good poker. You want as many terrible players at your table as you can get. Not bluffing may turn poker into a blackjack basic strategy type of game, but that's fine. If you have to catch cards to win, then you use your discipline to wait for good cards. How poker can get easier than that, I don't know.
And I'll say it again, no matter how many people are in, nothing co... | | Read Entire Entry |
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