Casino Talks

Posted by: bart at July 27, 2003, 9:27 am

Topic: casino on net Forum: Winner Online

I have a player who has been with us for 3 years. During this time he played only with bonuses, barely fulfilled the WR, and cashed out. Nothing illegal, everything according to the rules. I don’t want to continue serving this member. We pay fees to accept his deposit, we pay fees to cash him out, and we add to his cash out our own funds. However unpopular, it is a simple business decision. Now, should we toughen the WR? I don’t think so. I prefer to let this member go and still allow those who DESERVE – those who use their own funds as well to play – to take advantage of these liberal WR.

Except he can't take advantage of the liberal wagering requirements because then he is personna non grata. Look. A retired lady takes the bus to her favorite casino and gets 5 dollars of nickles. She pulls a few and gets a free drink. She goes and listens to the band for free. She pulls a few more and gets another drink. Shoud security escort her to the door? Certainly not. But they don't have to give her a free room either.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim liberal terms and then ban people who meet your conditions. You can't say you don't push players to play at unhealthy levels and then ban them when they don't.

To answer your question about the 3 year old player, I have to ask you some questions. Did you email him and ask him to play? Did you tell him in those emails, "Hey George, remember, don't play all these promos without playing on your own" or was he supposed to know that? In general, no you shouldn't ban him for playing what you offered and yes you should change your wager requirements to what you want them to be. You can do it in general or by player. You don't have to make every offer available to every player. IMHO.

There is a larger stage than "George" here. I am asking you as an industry leader to set standards. Not just for you but as a model to the industry. If the U.S. market shrinks it will be in some part due to the failure of the internet casinos to regulate themselves.

Jetset says that regulation is coming in the form of a new association. If it is, one of those standards should be that every player sets his own level of play. And it seems reasonable that every casino should decide at what level a player will receive promotional bonuses.

As to the compulsive players, no gaming house in their right mind want them as members. We have ery strict rules about this and our reps go through extensive training to identify and close the accounts of those who can’t control their gambling. This is not an easy process, but we have good tools to identify and deal with compulsive gamblers.

Maybe you do. But consistent with that policy is not pushing people to overplay. Remember, that all the casinos state this policy and they all have the 1-800 number for Gambler Annonymous. And yet all us read the stories in the papers where casinos allow/encourage compulsive players anyway. Hard to turn down the money. Most of us that play land based casinos see it when we play. And many of us know personally someone who is a compulsive gambler and they are getting served.

We do support that. I see that we agree that the player has to wager. The questions is – how much and with whose money. Just like in land-based casinos (LBC), we use specific formulas to decide the amount of comps given to the player. Here we are talking about players who don’t wager their funds at all. We are talking about players who make a deposit as a bait to get the bonus and rarely touch their deposit. This does not look like a compulsive behavior to me. This may upset some of you, but for me bonus chips do not belong to the player until he fulfills the WR. We let the player to play with free chips but they belong to us. Once WR is met, the chips are player’s. We can’t take them back. But we can make a decision if we still want to give this player free chips or if we want to have this player as a member at all.

Not sure about others, but it would only upset me if I read it a certain way. Your promos often don't award the chips till after the terms of the agreement are fullfilled. If you are saying that you can not award the chips after the player has deposited and wagered in accordance with the terms, then yes it will be ery upsetting to everyone. This is classic rogue behavior. I assume you are not saying that.

I am sure that there are some players who will operate at a statistical advantage by playing your comps the way they are structured. You are always going to have some of that. But you control how they are structured and your level of exposure.

If I go into a LBC and play a 2for1 coupon on one hand of Blackjack I have a statistical advantage. If I then ask for a food comp, no one is going to give it to me and I don't expect it. You can do the same. You can have an introductory offer to introduce your players and grant future comps as you see fit. I don't see the issue here.

– We all understand that LBCs are not throwing money away. LBC do base their comps on the gaming action of the player. And it is not to “some degree”, but to the ery high degree. As they say in Vegas, you get the free room and you pay for the hotel. One of the LBC promos that is similar to ours is a match play coupon. I can’t play with just that coupon. I have to wager my own money with it. In our casino, you do not have to touch your deposit. And that is fine for a few times. If a player chooses this as his only modus operandi, we do not want that player as a member.

LBCs don't ban you for playing the match coupon. And players do use their own money. Most of your promos don't award the bonus until after they have wagered their own funds. Some of your promos require not only that you play but the bonus comes only if you lose. Isn't that right?

For us it takes time to recognize a player for what he is. Once we do identify him as a bonus player, we either stop the bonuses or close the account for the reason I mentioned in my previous posting.

I would stop the bonus, too. No one is entitled to a bonus - unless it was offered and the player accepted the offer and met the terms. How do you stop the bonus? Do you email the player and tell him he is ineligible for future bonus play?

But my opinion is that you are on the right track. Offer the player what you think is right based on his level of play. Very simple rules. And have a few promos for everyone - if you wish - or not - if you wish.

– The rule is ery simple. As long as you risk your own funds from time to time, you will be welcomed. If you simply use your deposits as a bait to get bonuses, this will work for some time and then we’ll either stop your bonuses or will cancel your membership. Just keep in mind that we do not enjoy doing this.

I like the rule. I hope you make sure there is no doubt that those responding to your promo department knows that rule is part of it. You tell us what you expect and we will give you what you want. Or if you want too much, we won't participate. I am concerned by what you mean when you say "stop your bonuses". I hope you are not denying a bonus after the fact.

I want to also compliment you for showing up here and giving us the chance to talk frankly with you. I tried to couch my discussion in a positive manner but it is hard to offer suggestion without it coming off as bashing. I want to say I am a fan of Casino On Net.

I don't know if legislation will make all this moot or not. But I believe that it is imperitive for the industry to regulate itself. That would include encouraging players to play at their own recreational level. There is a thread on Bet2Gamble now that basically says the move to ban online gambling is directly tied to a depressed US economy coupled with a perceived drain by online gambling.

Caruso, I am curious how your circumstances fit the criteria for banning as outline by Vehe above.

bart

edited for typo

[This message has been edited by bart (edited 07-27-2003).]

[This message has been edited by bart (edited 07-27-2003).]

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