Casino Talks

Posted by: caruso at August 6, 2007, 11:44 am

Topic: Ecogra helps a casino to rob me! Forum: Winner Online

Quote: Originally Posted by FortuneLounge
You keep on accusing us of theft, yet you defend players who try to do the same to the casino.

In this case, the player "broke the rules", agreed. The issue isn't this, it's that the rule is grossly unacceptable, because it essentially states that you reserve the right to confiscate money at will.

Quote: Originally Posted by FortuneLounge
If you do not then have an agenda, why do you continuously have negative things to say about us and use every opportunity to label us ? If it is just a case of you not liking us, I can understand but then be objective at least.

What is non-objective? If you can highlight any non-objective comment I've made, please do so.

Quote: Originally Posted by FortuneLounge
Caruso, here is an open invitation.

Why don't you send me your ersion of how the terms and conditions regarding bonuses should read ? I would be ery willing to look at it to see if we can apply them (We will even pay you for that)

No money needed. The term in question is:

Quote:

Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns e.g. playing of equal, zero margin bets or hedge betting, which all shall be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes.

Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets using your entire or the majority of your account balance, where the majority of that balance is made up of bonus balance. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute “irregular play” for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus play-through requirements.

Yeah, "bonus abuse" has just been flat replaced with "irregular betting", LOL.

My first thought was to try to level the playing field and tighten it up, so that that term COULD stand, ie. ensure that winners and losers are refunded equally based on clearly outlined terms. This would be ery open to casino abuse unfortunately, and I don't suggest it.

FWIW, it went something like:

Quote:

Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for the following betting pattern: betting more than half of your account balance, while that balance includes a bonus and your total balance stands at anywhere up to 200% (twice) your initial balance + bonus. If you employ this betting strategy at any time while you are bound by wagering requirements, then your winnings will be removed or your losses refunded, and your account will be closed.

This wouldn't work for a few reasons:

1) It wouldn't get rid of smart players.

2) It's excessively complicated for players and casino.

3) It's open to abuse by the casino. Casino keeps losers deposits against the terms, refunds the 5% who complain and keeps the 95% who don't.

On the upside, it's not a rogue rule. But I don't recommend it, it was just an attempt to clean up the existing rogue rule.

The fact is, you cannot guard yourself against winning players with your bonus format, unless you go the "slots only" route. Either you need to radically rethink the structure, or accept that part of your "growth budget" is those losses incurred to winning players.

Intercasino, for example, has never had a complaint, and they've been offering MONTHLY bonuses to ALL players for years. So why no problem? Because they have a huge player base, generated to a large extent by their generous bonus programme, and they write of the losses to winning players as part of the cost of maintaining their profile. And it works.

What about closer to home, the 32Red group? They manage to offer signup and MONTHLY bonuses, and they don't claim a problem.

Why is Fortune Lounge so badly and uniquely affected?

I would suggest you delete that paragraph entirely - it simply represents rogue practice. Suck in the inevitable losses as marketing costs, and focus on running things down the line and without pulling any strokes. That may be an unhelpful response, but under your current format I don't see an alternative.

On the subject of the 32Red group: they are pretty much the only Microgaming group to not use the eCOGRA stamp. And they are THE only Microgaming group to have never generated a bonus complaint (I think). That's rather remarkable, isn't it? The only Microgaming group to not generate complaints is one of the only groups to not carry the eCOGRA "Safe And Fair" logo.

Ironic, shall we say.

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