Casino Talks

Posted by: wyldchyld at March 25, 2006, 8:45 am

Topic: Stars 300+20 bust hand Forum: Bonus Whores

AceM wrote: wyldchyld wrote: zm_dawg wrote: When was this $300......i see theres on on Saturday. I wish they would use the same structure as the $150's during the week where it gives you some better levels throughout the middle. As far as the play goes, I would say you'd still have all your chips if you would have bet out on the flop and been raised by the A/Q, he wouldn't have just called with a flop like that. wyld.....please dont raise here with 3 people to act behind you with such a marginal holding. This makes me wanna get into a tournament now....was gonna hold off tonight.hmm

Z I have to disagree on not raising preflop here. I praise preflop here (without being at the table unlike OP, and having no notions of how the other guys are playing) to define both my hand, and theirs.

Raising preflop does several things:
1. Gives you a chance to take the pot down without a fight
2. Defines your opponents hands to an extent
3. Defines to an extent your hand to your opponents (which if you play it correctly works to your advantage most of the time)
4. Allows you to take the initiative
5. If original limper folds & SB just calls, then you have position

I'd do this with 72off If I thought both opponents were weak or I could outplay them post flop.
I won't go much further into this but, this is not limit poker. You are out of position and building a pot with a marginal hand.... and you've advertised exactly what you have. Two big cards. In a deep cash game I'd call you with any two and you're going to have to flop 2 pair or a set to win the pot you'll get so much action out of position. In a tournament, you're just asking to donk all of your chips with a -2ev spot. (bad position, marginal holdings) That is just my 2 cents.

Ace & z, I respect your games, and you have earned much more in a month than I have so far in my poker playing, but I am not sure why you guys would not make a raise pre-flop here.

OP's stack = 6,000
Blinds = 50/100 (which on Stars I believe is the 4th blind level, so probably a little more than an hour into this tourney)
Position= SB, OP in for 50 TC

Pre-flop action:

1. Folded to 4th or 5th position player who Open Limps for 100. Pot now equals 250
2. Cutoff now getting 2.5 to 1 to call now decides to limp. Pot now equals 350
3. Action to OP in SB. He can either call getting 7 to 1 odds on A10off, or Raise to 600 (where I would raise it to here) which is only 10% of his stack. This also gives other 3 players 500 to 600 odds to call. Granted if just one of them makes the call, others get much better implied & pot odds, but that is a risk I'm willing to take to either win the pot pre-flop, or gain information for the rest of the hand.

Problems I see with just calling:

1. You have no idea what range of cards your opponents have. Who Open limps? With what does one open limp with? Is is looking for help, or trying to trap?

2. Ace on the flop: You're not going to get away from this, barring some extreme action, after just limping. You cannot reasonably put anyone at the table on a bigger Ace than you at this point. A4suited perhaps, or Ace+Heart card, but not AJ, AQ, AK (Unless you really know your opponents well)

3. Ten on the Turn: This is where the OP got screwed by not raising pre-flop. My guess is if he had raised pre-flop, and got called by Cutoff both pre-flop & on flop, this is where he could've gotten away from the hand after the big raise on turn.

3a. Analysis of crappy situation you are now in: OP has 11 outs to win here, 9 hearts, 2 remaining 10s. The pot is 2000 on OP's 800 TC turn bet, then Cutoff sets OP all in, making the pot 2800+4200= 7000 for all intensive purposes. This gives OP 4200 to 7000 odds to call. Pot odds do not justify a call here if your goal is to survive and advance. But if your goal is to gamble to get a big stack early, you have a little better than a 1 in 4 chance of hitting.

Now Ace or Z, I don't doubt you guys may play disciplined enough to be able to limp with A10off and throw it away when the Ace hits the flop and no one showed any strength preflop, but I don't think many players can say that. Raising pre-flop at least gives them some warning signs.

Casino Classic
Get $500 free on the house!

Categories:

online casino play poker texas holdem poker poker room casino poker secrets best casino video poker poker strategy online slots gambling casino slots slots play casino casino games poker bonus codes internet casino blackjack craps texas holdem tournament

Links:

Movie Talks
Forum Extractor

Casino Classic.
Get $500 free on the house!